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From "Bogdan Vatkov" <bvat...@globaltech-bg.com>
Subject Re: C++ tool like Torque?
Date Tue, 20 Apr 2004 15:34:20 GMT
Yes you are right.
And what I wanted to say is that I want to extend the usage and the power of
torque.(or make an extension of torque persistence layer)

My example was the first I can think of and respecitvely it is possibly not
the best one.
I want Roles/Authorization control somehow associated with the database
It could be done via external XML. (just like the external db xml schema,
this might be an external xml schema that has
some kinda relevance with db structure tags)
My first reaction was:
XML by itself allows extra data for a specific tag to be inserted and this
will not break down those
who do not need that extra info ..this is the power of XML.

I want to have my Roles and Roles dependant code to be involved into kinda
autogeneration (to use toqrue-gen style)
(of course it could be even straight runtime mechanism (without code pre-gen
and without torque))

I want to decouple authorization definitions and the hard code.(the db
management code)
I want to give all the Roles and the structure to the Marketing Management
and they to just say: oh ..this roles will write here ...and those roles
will read this ..and that ..

I want to move this part of business logic out to the declarative world (i
do not want it locked inside the functional programming)
Thus I will need strong relation between db structure definition and Roles
If you can give some good example i will apreciate it.

Maybe I have to think more of a Authorization Control Platform (library) (to
handle more than just "db structure permisions")
but these are my basic thoughts.
I am working in general for more and more programming automation...
(I like AOP and I think this is the next gen programming style. But I still
do not want to lie on aspect waving. the most of programmers are not common
to it yet.at least not here in my developers team. maybe some day ..but not

And btw I do not agree that database structure has nothing to do with the
business logic.
If we could say db structure is a model -> than we could say that business
logic is the implementation of ideas.
Althoug db structure cannot handle any business logic in real it is nothing
more than a distinct storage organization
of the current (or chronological) status of the business processes driven by
the business logic.
The one side (db) is has no sense wihtout the business logic.
And the other side (BL) cannot persist :) without the db side.
So they are not independent.
At least these are my own opinions. I am not going to convenience anyone ;)

Any toughts about Auth 2 Db integration will be appreciated.

best regards,
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Newton" <dave@solaraccess.com>
To: "Apache Torque Users List" <torque-user@db.apache.org>
Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 5:25 PM
Subject: Re: C++ tool like Torque?

> On Tue, 2004-04-20 at 10:08, Bogdan Vatkov wrote:
> > In fact I have extended the BaseObject vm to
> > contain extra information of the access mode for each <column /> for a
> > particular "Role".
> > (each column has 2 vectors of Roles - the first are roles allowed to
read ,
> > the second are roles allowed to modify the column)
> > and of course JSP-s and MVC are using this info at runtime to obtain a
> > specific behaviour depending on the logged user (his roles)
> That's sounds pretty neat. I'd mention that technically, at least in my
> opinion (which really doesn't amount to much ;) the concept of "roles"
> seems to be at a different level than the data transfer objects...
> In other words, the "database interface" torque classes wouldn't want to
> contain information about who is allowed to access what--that lies above
> the db layer.
> For many projects it probably doesn't matter, but in larger projects
> those decisions aren't made by the database designer and, in fact,
> _must_ remain decoupled from the database for various reasons, usually
> silly, but reasons nonetheless.
> Right now I'm looking at the Spring framework with its pseudo-AOP
> features to deal with roles but I'm not sure what route we're going to
> take yet. I _do_ know that having roles inside the tables won't work for
> several reasons.
> > I think the "Authorization issue" is relevant to the business logic of a
> > project thus so it is usefull to be stored with the database structure.
> The database structure really isn't business logic, though, at least in
> the type of projects I'm working on now *grumble*
> You would not BELIEVE the levels of decoupling I have to deal with right
> and the amount of aggravation one must tolerate to make the smallest
> change. I guess when you're dealing with 50,000+ employees, 600 offices,
> 5000 developers, etc. things are a little different than I'm used to :/
> Dave
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