Return-Path: Delivered-To: apmail-db-jdo-dev-archive@www.apache.org Received: (qmail 11593 invoked from network); 21 Dec 2005 21:41:23 -0000 Received: from hermes.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (209.237.227.199) by minotaur.apache.org with SMTP; 21 Dec 2005 21:41:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 7782 invoked by uid 500); 21 Dec 2005 21:41:23 -0000 Mailing-List: contact jdo-dev-help@db.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: jdo-dev@db.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list jdo-dev@db.apache.org Received: (qmail 7771 invoked by uid 99); 21 Dec 2005 21:41:22 -0000 Received: from asf.osuosl.org (HELO asf.osuosl.org) (140.211.166.49) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Wed, 21 Dec 2005 13:41:22 -0800 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=10.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (asf.osuosl.org: local policy) Received: from [192.18.98.34] (HELO brmea-mail-3.sun.com) (192.18.98.34) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Wed, 21 Dec 2005 13:41:21 -0800 Received: from fe-amer-03.sun.com ([192.18.108.177]) by brmea-mail-3.sun.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id jBLLf13F006257 for ; Wed, 21 Dec 2005 14:41:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from conversion-daemon.mail-amer.sun.com by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) id <0IRV00301APDG400@mail-amer.sun.com> (original mail from Craig.Russell@Sun.COM) for jdo-dev@db.apache.org; Wed, 21 Dec 2005 14:41:01 -0700 (MST) Received: from [129.146.30.201] by mail-amer.sun.com (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.2-4.02 (built Sep 9 2005)) with ESMTPSA id <0IRV00HK3AWC1500@mail-amer.sun.com> for jdo-dev@db.apache.org; Wed, 21 Dec 2005 14:41:00 -0700 (MST) Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 13:40:59 -0800 From: Craig L Russell Subject: Re: Tests for execution in managed environments / J2EE containers? In-reply-to: <43A0657E.2000609@artnology.com> Sender: Craig.Russell@Sun.COM To: Apache JDO project , JDO Expert Group Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.746.2) Content-type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; boundary=Apple-Mail-86-127753579; micalg=sha1 References: <439EB68C.1040806@artnology.com> <1134479001.439ec69940aaf@webmail.jpox.org> <439ECA0D.2030204@artnology.com> <43A0657E.2000609@artnology.com> X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org X-Spam-Rating: minotaur.apache.org 1.6.2 0/1000/N --Apple-Mail-86-127753579 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-85-127753382 --Apple-Mail-85-127753382 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; delsp=yes; format=flowed Hi J=F6rg, I'd welcome your involvement in the Apache JDO project in order to =20 realize your goal of testing JDO implementations in an app server as =20 part of the TCK. We can start a wiki page where you can propose the =20 testing methodology and specific test scenarios in order to engage =20 the JDO user and vendor community. I'm not as keen on taking on an unfunded mandate. Are you willing to put some energy into this project? Regards, Craig On Dec 14, 2005, at 10:33 AM, J=F6rg von Frantzius wrote: > Craig L Russell schrieb: >> The TCK tests are designed to test the functionality of JDO in =20 >> J2SE environments, as this is where the spec is focused. There are =20= >> no spec requirements of a JDO implementation with regard to =20 >> behavior inside a container (there is no contract that is required =20= >> on either the container side or the JDO side). > The spec says in "2.3 Goals": > > The JDO architecture uses the J2EE Connector Architecture to =20 > make it > applicable to all J2EE platform compliant application servers from > multiple vendors. > > Maybe the provision of a JCA adapter is optional, but is it that =20 > only mandatory requirements are tested in the TCK? >> Most JDO implementations use a non-standard way to configure the =20 >> web environment (such as a non-Java Connector Architecture =20 >> resource) mainly because the Java Connector Architecture resource =20 >> requirements are overkill for most applications. > I'm not so sure about that. We're not talking about simple Servlet-=20 > engines here, but application servers, which provide e.g. JMS. In =20 > order to be able to transactionally send JMS messages and modify =20 > data within the same transaction, integration in the JTA is a must, =20= > and most of the times done via JCA, I think. In my experience, use =20 > of JCA is very common when application servers are used. >> It's also not clear what the TCK test suite would actually do. > It should simply assure that retrieving and modifying data works =20 > within the container. When I tried that with JPOX 1.1.0-beta-5 and =20 > JBoss 4.0.3 SP1, I was suprised to see lots of bugs, probably =20 > mostly because this is not covered by any JUnit tests yet. There =20 > could e.g. these two varations be tested to assure transaction =20 > enlisting works: > > * first create a PM, then begin a UserTransaction, retrieve and > modify some data, commit the UserTransaction and verify the data > was written to DB (JPOX currently fails here for me) > * first begin a UserTransaction, then create a PM, retrieve and > modify some data, commit the UserTransaction and verify the data > was written to DB > > There are some other scenarious involving EJBs to be found in =20 > 16.1.3 of the PFD spec, just look for "How to test?" comments in =20 > that chapter ;-) > > Maybe it is theoretically possible to have enlisting in JTA =20 > transactions without using JCA, I don't know. That could be tested =20 > by deploying a different configuration of the appserver =20 > (without .rar). > > Testing advanced features like XA and 2PC would be really great, if =20= > not only by providing an example of how to configure the reference =20 > implementation for that... (does JPOX do XA and 2PC?) >> >> That said, I think it's worth a discussion if you have some ideas =20 >> of the scope and environment of such tests. > Please see my other mail for an idea of how to include an appserver =20= > in the tests (how feasible ever it is...) >>> I'd think that a majority of the JDO users are writing web =20 >>> applications and need to run their stuff in an application server. >> >> True, but the TCK will likely not be normative as to the =20 >> configuration of the JDO implementation inside the specific =20 >> container environment. > It could look for some .rar and accompanying *ds.xml file and =20 > deploy them if found. If there are none, maybe the implementation =20 > has found a way to plug into JTA. >> The TCK is not for end users, but rather for JDO implementations =20 >> to help them make sure that they are compliant with the =20 >> specification. I think the major value of the TCK for end users is =20= >> to make sure that their vendor passes it. > Right. So at the moment as an end-user you can't really know =20 > whether that implementation will do what you need it for, i.e. work =20= > inside an appserver. > > Best regards, > > J=F6rg. > > P.S. > How come you can send those nice HTML mails, mine were always =20 > rejected by the mailserver? >> >> Best regards, >> >> Craig >>> >>> >>> erik@jpox.org schrieb: >>>> No. >>>> >>>> Quoting J=F6rg von Frantzius >>> >: >>>> >>>> >>>>> Hi, >>>>> >>>>> does the TCK currently include any tests for managed environments? >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for information, >>>>> J=F6rg >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> __________________________________________________________ >>>>> Dipl.-Inf. J=F6rg von Frantzius | artnology GmbH >>>>> | Milastr. 4 >>>>> Tel +49 (0)30 4435 099 26 | 10437 Berlin >>>>> Fax +49 (0)30 4435 099 99 | http://www.artnology.com >>>>> _______________________________|__________________________ >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> --=20 >>> __________________________________________________________ >>> Dipl.-Inf. J=F6rg von Frantzius | artnology GmbH >>> | Milastr. 4 >>> Tel +49 (0)30 4435 099 26 | 10437 Berlin >>> Fax +49 (0)30 4435 099 99 | http://www.artnology.com >>> _______________________________|__________________________ >>> >> >> Craig Russell >> Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://java.sun.com/products/=20= >> jdo >> 408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com >> P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp! >> > > > --=20 > __________________________________________________________ > Dipl.-Inf. J=F6rg von Frantzius | artnology GmbH > | Milastr. 4 > Tel +49 (0)30 4435 099 26 | 10437 Berlin > Fax +49 (0)30 4435 099 99 | http://www.artnology.com > _______________________________|__________________________ > Craig Russell Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://java.sun.com/products/jdo 408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp! --Apple-Mail-85-127753382 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi=A0J=F6rg,

I'd welcome your = involvement in the Apache JDO project in order to realize your goal of = testing JDO implementations in an app server as part of the TCK. We can = start a wiki page where you can propose the testing methodology and = specific test scenarios in order to engage the JDO user and vendor = community.

I'm = not as keen on taking on an unfunded mandate.=A0

Are you willing to put some = energy into this project?

Regards,

Craig

On Dec 14, 2005, at 10:33 AM, J=F6rg von Frantzius wrote:

Craig L Russell schrieb:
The TCK tests are designed to = test the functionality of JDO in J2SE environments, as this is where the = spec is focused. There are no spec requirements of a JDO implementation = with regard to behavior inside a container (there is no contract that is = required on either the container side or the JDO side).
=
The spec says in "2.3 = Goals":

=A0=A0 = The JDO architecture uses the J2EE Connector Architecture to make = it
=A0=A0 = applicable to all J2EE platform compliant application servers = from
=A0=A0 multiple = vendors.

Maybe the provision of a JCA adapter is optional, = but is it that only mandatory requirements are tested in the TCK?
=
Most JDO implementations = use a non-standard way to configure the web environment (such as a = non-Java Connector Architecture resource) mainly because the Java = Connector Architecture resource requirements are overkill for most = applications.
I'm not so = sure about that. We're not talking about simple Servlet-engines here, = but application servers, which provide e.g. JMS. In order to be able to = transactionally send JMS messages and modify data within the same = transaction, integration in the JTA is a must, and most of the times = done via JCA, I think. In my experience, use of JCA is very common when = application servers are used.
It's also not clear what the TCK test suite would = actually do.
It should = simply assure that retrieving and modifying data works within the = container. When I tried that with JPOX 1.1.0-beta-5 and JBoss 4.0.3 SP1, = I was suprised to see lots of bugs, probably mostly because this is not = covered by any JUnit tests yet. There could e.g. these two varations be = tested to assure transaction enlisting works:

=A0=A0 * first create a PM, then = begin a UserTransaction, retrieve and
=A0=A0 =A0 modify some data, = commit the UserTransaction and verify the data
=A0=A0 =A0 = was written to DB (JPOX currently fails here for me)
=A0=A0 = * first begin a UserTransaction, then create a PM, retrieve = and
=A0=A0 =A0 modify some data, = commit the UserTransaction and verify the data
=A0=A0 =A0 = was written to DB

There are some other scenarious = involving EJBs to be found in 16.1.3 of the PFD spec, just look for "How = to test?" comments in that chapter ;-)

Maybe it is = theoretically possible to have enlisting in JTA transactions without = using JCA, I don't know. That could be tested by deploying a different = configuration of the appserver (without .rar).

Testing = advanced features like XA and 2PC would be really great, if not only by = providing an example of how to configure the reference implementation = for that... (does JPOX do XA and 2PC?)

That said, I think it's worth a discussion if you = have some ideas of the scope and environment of such tests.
=
Please see my other mail for an = idea of how to include an appserver in the tests (how feasible ever it = is...)
I'd think that a majority of the JDO users are = writing web applications and need to run their stuff in an application = server.
True, but the TCK will likely = not be normative as to the configuration of the JDO implementation = inside the specific container environment.
It could look for some .rar and accompanying *ds.xml = file and deploy them if found. If there are none, maybe the = implementation has found a way to plug into JTA.
The TCK is not for end users, = but rather for JDO implementations to help them make sure that they are = compliant with the specification. I think the major value of the TCK for = end users is to make sure that their vendor passes it.
=
Right. So at the moment as an = end-user you can't really know whether that implementation will do what = you need it for, i.e. work inside an appserver.

Best = regards,

J=F6rg.

P.S.
How come you can send those nice HTML mails, mine = were always rejected by the mailserver?

Best regards,

Craig


mailto:erik@jpox.org> = schrieb:
No.

Quoting = J=F6rg von Frantzius <joerg.von.frantzius@artnology.com <mailto:joerg.von.frantzi= us@artnology.com>>:

=A0=A0

Hi,

does the TCK currently include = any tests for managed environments?

Thanks for = information,
J=F6rg

Dipl.-Inf. J=F6rg von Frantzius=A0 |=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 artnology = GmbH
=A0=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0= =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 |=A0 =A0= =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Milastr. 4
Tel +49 = (0)30 4435 099 26=A0 =A0 =A0 = |=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = 10437 Berlin
Fax +49 (0)30 4435 099 = 99=A0 =A0 =A0 |=A0 http://www.artnology.com


=A0=A0 = =A0






=A0=A0



--=A0
Dipl.-Inf. J=F6rg von Frantzius=A0 |=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 artnology = GmbH
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 |=A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Milastr. 4
Tel +49 = (0)30 4435 099 26=A0 =A0 =A0 = |=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = 10437 Berlin
Fax +49 (0)30 4435 099 = 99=A0 =A0 =A0 |=A0 http://www.artnology.com


Craig = Russell
Architect, Sun Java Enterprise = System http://java.sun.com/products/jdo=
408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!



--=A0
Dipl.-Inf. J=F6rg von Frantzius=A0 |=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 artnology = GmbH
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 |=A0 =A0 = =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 Milastr. 4
Tel +49 = (0)30 4435 099 26=A0 =A0 =A0 = |=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 = 10437 Berlin
Fax +49 (0)30 4435 099 = 99=A0 =A0 =A0 |=A0 http://www.artnology.com

=

Craig Russell

Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://java.sun.com/products/jdo=

408 = 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com

P.S. A = good JDO? O, Gasp!


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