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From Craig L Russell <Craig.Russ...@Sun.COM>
Subject Re: Tests for execution in managed environments / J2EE containers?
Date Wed, 21 Dec 2005 21:40:59 GMT
Hi Jörg,

I'd welcome your involvement in the Apache JDO project in order to  
realize your goal of testing JDO implementations in an app server as  
part of the TCK. We can start a wiki page where you can propose the  
testing methodology and specific test scenarios in order to engage  
the JDO user and vendor community.

I'm not as keen on taking on an unfunded mandate.

Are you willing to put some energy into this project?

Regards,

Craig

On Dec 14, 2005, at 10:33 AM, Jörg von Frantzius wrote:

> Craig L Russell schrieb:
>> The TCK tests are designed to test the functionality of JDO in  
>> J2SE environments, as this is where the spec is focused. There are  
>> no spec requirements of a JDO implementation with regard to  
>> behavior inside a container (there is no contract that is required  
>> on either the container side or the JDO side).
> The spec says in "2.3 Goals":
>
>    The JDO architecture uses the J2EE Connector Architecture to  
> make it
>    applicable to all J2EE platform compliant application servers from
>    multiple vendors.
>
> Maybe the provision of a JCA adapter is optional, but is it that  
> only mandatory requirements are tested in the TCK?
>> Most JDO implementations use a non-standard way to configure the  
>> web environment (such as a non-Java Connector Architecture  
>> resource) mainly because the Java Connector Architecture resource  
>> requirements are overkill for most applications.
> I'm not so sure about that. We're not talking about simple Servlet- 
> engines here, but application servers, which provide e.g. JMS. In  
> order to be able to transactionally send JMS messages and modify  
> data within the same transaction, integration in the JTA is a must,  
> and most of the times done via JCA, I think. In my experience, use  
> of JCA is very common when application servers are used.
>> It's also not clear what the TCK test suite would actually do.
> It should simply assure that retrieving and modifying data works  
> within the container. When I tried that with JPOX 1.1.0-beta-5 and  
> JBoss 4.0.3 SP1, I was suprised to see lots of bugs, probably  
> mostly because this is not covered by any JUnit tests yet. There  
> could e.g. these two varations be tested to assure transaction  
> enlisting works:
>
>    * first create a PM, then begin a UserTransaction, retrieve and
>      modify some data, commit the UserTransaction and verify the data
>      was written to DB (JPOX currently fails here for me)
>    * first begin a UserTransaction, then create a PM, retrieve and
>      modify some data, commit the UserTransaction and verify the data
>      was written to DB
>
> There are some other scenarious involving EJBs to be found in  
> 16.1.3 of the PFD spec, just look for "How to test?" comments in  
> that chapter ;-)
>
> Maybe it is theoretically possible to have enlisting in JTA  
> transactions without using JCA, I don't know. That could be tested  
> by deploying a different configuration of the appserver  
> (without .rar).
>
> Testing advanced features like XA and 2PC would be really great, if  
> not only by providing an example of how to configure the reference  
> implementation for that... (does JPOX do XA and 2PC?)
>>
>> That said, I think it's worth a discussion if you have some ideas  
>> of the scope and environment of such tests.
> Please see my other mail for an idea of how to include an appserver  
> in the tests (how feasible ever it is...)
>>> I'd think that a majority of the JDO users are writing web  
>>> applications and need to run their stuff in an application server.
>>
>> True, but the TCK will likely not be normative as to the  
>> configuration of the JDO implementation inside the specific  
>> container environment.
> It could look for some .rar and accompanying *ds.xml file and  
> deploy them if found. If there are none, maybe the implementation  
> has found a way to plug into JTA.
>> The TCK is not for end users, but rather for JDO implementations  
>> to help them make sure that they are compliant with the  
>> specification. I think the major value of the TCK for end users is  
>> to make sure that their vendor passes it.
> Right. So at the moment as an end-user you can't really know  
> whether that implementation will do what you need it for, i.e. work  
> inside an appserver.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jörg.
>
> P.S.
> How come you can send those nice HTML mails, mine were always  
> rejected by the mailserver?
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Craig
>>>
>>>
>>> erik@jpox.org <mailto:erik@jpox.org> schrieb:
>>>> No.
>>>>
>>>> Quoting Jörg von Frantzius <joerg.von.frantzius@artnology.com  
>>>> <mailto:joerg.von.frantzius@artnology.com>>:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> does the TCK currently include any tests for managed environments?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for information,
>>>>> Jörg
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> __________________________________________________________
>>>>> Dipl.-Inf. Jörg von Frantzius  |            artnology GmbH
>>>>>                                |                Milastr. 4
>>>>> Tel +49 (0)30 4435 099 26      |              10437 Berlin
>>>>> Fax +49 (0)30 4435 099 99      |  http://www.artnology.com
>>>>> _______________________________|__________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> __________________________________________________________
>>> Dipl.-Inf. Jörg von Frantzius  |            artnology GmbH
>>>                               |                Milastr. 4
>>> Tel +49 (0)30 4435 099 26      |              10437 Berlin
>>> Fax +49 (0)30 4435 099 99      |  http://www.artnology.com
>>> _______________________________|__________________________
>>>
>>
>> Craig Russell
>> Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://java.sun.com/products/ 
>> jdo
>> 408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
>> P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!
>>
>
>
> -- 
> __________________________________________________________
> Dipl.-Inf. Jörg von Frantzius  |            artnology GmbH
>                               |                Milastr. 4
> Tel +49 (0)30 4435 099 26      |              10437 Berlin
> Fax +49 (0)30 4435 099 99      |  http://www.artnology.com
> _______________________________|__________________________
>

Craig Russell
Architect, Sun Java Enterprise System http://java.sun.com/products/jdo
408 276-5638 mailto:Craig.Russell@sun.com
P.S. A good JDO? O, Gasp!


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