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From Geir Magnusson Jr <g...@4quarters.com>
Subject Re: Direction of this project...
Date Sat, 12 Feb 2005 21:17:16 GMT

On Feb 12, 2005, at 1:33 PM, Niclas Hedhman wrote:

> On Sunday 13 February 2005 02:00, Geir Magnusson Jr wrote:
>> However, I think that just getting the Sun JDO1 code 'over the hump' 
>> is
>> our focus, although as I said, given the fact that the Sun people are
>> JDO people (hence involved in the JDO2 huggermuggery), and I as Apache
>> JCP EC rep am also knee deep in it....
> Yeah, I have missed this earlier...
> Why is there so much focus on JDO in J2EE? After all, the biggest 
> supporters
> of JDO are we, who don't like, don't want or can not use J2EE.

There isn't.  JDO isn't a part of J2EE.

However, the EJB expert group is adding a JDO-like persistence 
mechanism in EJB3, referred to as the "POJO persistence sub spec of 
JSR-220", hence the connection.

I call it "EJayBernate", as it's influenced by Hibernate (along w/ JDO, 
TopLink, etc) and is easier to write than "POJO persistence sub spec of 

> I doubt that EJB3 will be anywhere close to useful in smaller sized
> applications. EJB has traditionally been mixing "concern spaces" like 
> few
> others, and I have very little faith that the EJB3 Persistence API 
> will be
> anywhere near useful, especially in constrained devices.

Well, the aim is to have EJayBernate be a standard POJO persistence 
mechanism in all of Java, both J2EE and J2SE.  I'm not holding by 
breath, as I think that what you need to do in a j2EE container is very 
different than what you do in J2SE.  But they promised, and we'll just 

> And when is the spec scheduled to be released?

They are pushing for an early draft by J2EEOne^H^H^H^H^H^H JavaOne.

> Phew... Incredibly interesting line of argumentation that the "No 
> voters"
> give; Basically "It is more than you are allowed to do." Are they 
> worried
> that by the time EJB3 hits the streets it is totally outdate, and JDO3 
> will
> be around the corner with even better goddies.

Um, well, erm, yah, could be.  The argument is that it's confusing for 
the market.  My argument (as you saw in my vote comment) was to let the 
market decide.  If EJB3 rocks - if EJayBernate rocks - then people will 
use that and JDO will die a natural death of non-interest.

> Honestly, your 'comment' is really nice, but don't forget commercial 
> companies
> don't really like market forces...

Well, it's ironic that a non-profit would be carrying the banner of 
'the market' isn't it... :)


> Cheers
> Niclas
Geir Magnusson Jr                                  +1-203-665-6437

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