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From "Andrew C. Oliver" <acoli...@apache.org>
Subject Re: scope? purpose? rationale?
Date Mon, 27 May 2002 16:02:51 GMT
Geir, Still planning this?


On Fri, 2002-05-10 at 18:10, Geir Magnusson Jr. wrote:
> On 5/10/02 12:17 PM, "Andrew C. Oliver" <acoliver@apache.org> wrote:
> 
> > Excellent questions. Geir I guess has close sourced his proposal for the
> > moment ;-) -- but I think Geir that we should take note all of these and
> > answer and structure the proposal to answer them in advance. No doubt
> > the same questions will be asked again later by those who get the
> > binding vote.
> > 
> 
> Sorry - will have posted tomorrow.  Forgot to ask dirk.
> 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > Andy
> > 
> > Rodney Waldhoff wrote:
> > 
> >> Peter wrote:
> >> 
> >>>>> yep. But not really different from how xml <--> jakarta
> >>>>> overlap. Both have web app frameworks both do funky stuff with XML.
> >>>> 
> >> 
> >> I don't see a great deal of conflict between xml and jakarta. I don't
> >> see a sub-sub-project of either sub-project that's painfully out of
> >> place where it is now. There is some overlap, but the partitioning of
> >> projects seems pretty clear. But I do see potentially signficant
> >> overlap between db.apache and both xml.apache and jakarta.apache. Few
> >> if any of the projects we've been considering for db.apache wouldn't
> >> fit cleanly into either xml.apache or jakarta.apache. Many of the
> >> projects currently in xml and jakarta fall under a "data persistence
> >> and access" umbrella. (Isn't that precisely what commons-collections
> >> is about? Shouldn't a BTree implement SortedMap?)
> >> 
> >> Ellis replied:
> >> 
> >>>> It's a little different because it seems each of the other projects
> >>>> are more technology centric (Jakarta/Java, Perl, PHP, TCL, XML) and
not
> >>>> application/mission centric with the major exception of httpd. So
> >>>> 'db' is going to break that mold a bit more and be application
> >>>> specific like httpd?
> >>> 
> >> 
> >> Geir replied:
> >> 
> >>> Definitely. That's one of the fundamental principles - as you tend to
> >>> bring a broad mix of things to solve data
> >>> related problems, having a project and community comfortable with
> >>> that idea should work really well.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Maybe. It seems to me that it may be just as likely that the Java
> >> parts of db.apache will have more in common with (and more to the
> >> point, share more code with) jakarta.apache than with anything else in
> >> db, and that the XML parts of db.apache will have more in common with
> >> xml.apache than anything else in db, etc.
> >> 
> >> To put it another way, it seems to me that the current top-level
> >> apache projects are either built around a specific flagship product
> >> (httpd, Perl [mod_perl], Tcl [mod_tcl]) or around a specific language
> >> (Jakarta, XML, PHP), or started as the former and moved toward the
> >> latter (this seems to be the trend). Adding another top-level project
> >> that's really just Java and XML based stuff (and realistically, that's
> >> what we've been talking about) would seem to add to rather than reduce
> >> the confusion (and add some, however minor, bureaucratic-overhead
> >> along the way).
> >> 
> >> If "community" can be defined solely by having a vaguely common
> >> interest, especially one as broad as "data persistence and access",
> >> maybe all we really need is a discussion forum. It's still not clear
> >> to me what we gain out of creating a container for only-conceptually
> >> related projects.
> >> 
> >> How's this different from creating web-app-frameworks.apache.org out
> >> of cocoon, struts, turbine, and velocity? (And those would likely have
> >> more in common than db.apache projects.)
> >> 
> >> - Rod
> >> 
> >> _________________________________________________________________
> >> Join the world's largest e-mail service with MSN Hotmail.
> >> http://www.hotmail.com
> >> 
> >> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> -- 
> Geir Magnusson Jr.
> Research & Development, Adeptra Inc.
> geirm@adeptra.com
> +1-203-247-1713
> 
> 
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