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From Rick Hillegas <Richard.Hille...@Sun.COM>
Subject Re: Derby in-memory back end - where to go next?
Date Fri, 11 Sep 2009 14:01:09 GMT
Hi Lily,

Some responses inline...

Lily Wei wrote:
>
> Hi Rick:
>
>      I have some follow up questions.
> Middle-tier caching, monitoring transient data streams and test rigs 
> totally make sense.
>
> Do you see any benchmark in turn of how derby helps these applications?
>
I don't think we've published any figures on the performance boost you 
get from running in memory. My anecdotal recollection is that you see a 
significant boost once you've gotten past database creation. Kristian 
has done the most extensive testing and may have some figures that he 
can share. Unfortunately, he suffered an accident earlier this week and 
is up on the blocks for a while.
>
> In aspect such as performance, totally memory consumption or reduce 
> hardware cost?
>
>  
>
>      Do you see other embedded databases that also provide solution on 
> the stripped-down CDC VM?
>
I don't think that H2 or HSQLDB run on CDC.

Regards,
-Rick
>
> Do you have any data point for Derby?
>
>  
>
> Thank you so much for shed some lights for people like me,
>
> Lily
>
>
>
> *From:* Rick Hillegas <Richard.Hillegas@Sun.COM>
> *To:* Derby Discussion <derby-user@db.apache.org>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 9, 2009 2:01:01 PM
> *Subject:* Re: Derby in-memory back end - where to go next?
>
> Hi Lily,
>
> Some comments inline...
>
> Lily Wei wrote:
> >
> > Hi Rick:
> >
> >      Thank you so much for sharing the information with the group.
> >
> > >* It would be great to be able to bound the growth of the in-memory db
> >
> > Is there a trend for need of in-memory db on JAVA world?
> >
> I find that this consistently generates a lot of discussion whenever I 
> talk about 10.5 features with users.
> >
> > Is it mainly for applications, i.e. ERP, CRM, SRM?
> >
> The top use-cases which keep coming up are:
>
> o Middle-tier caching -- here people use Derby in the middle tier in 
> order to scale out access to a big back end like Oracle or DB2. 
> Running in memory makes this perform even better.
>
> o Monitoring transient data streams - here you slice and dice the data 
> while the monitoring application is up but you don't necessarily need 
> to keep the data after the monitoring session ends.
>
> o Test rigs -- here you can use Derby on your laptop to run regression 
> tests against an application which will run in production on a big 
> back end like Oracle or DB2; the rig is lightweight and cleans up 
> after itself.
> >
> > What kind of solution JAVA can provide for smart device like iPhone, 
> RIMM or Plam? i.e. Will JAVA play well with WindowMobile or Arnoid?
> >
> Our small device story is our ability to run on the stripped-down CDC 
> VM. Being able to run completely in memory gives this story extra 
> appeal too.
>
> Thanks,
> -Rick
> >
> > 
> > 
> > Thank you for shed the lights for us in advance,
> >
> > Lily
> >
> >
> > *From:* Rick Hillegas <Richard.Hillegas@Sun.COM 
> <mailto:Richard.Hillegas@Sun.COM>>
> > *To:* Derby Discussion <derby-user@db.apache.org 
> <mailto:derby-user@db.apache.org>>
> > *Sent:* Wednesday, September 9, 2009 11:13:05 AM
> > *Subject:* Re: Derby in-memory back end - where to go next?
> >
> > Hi Kristian,
> >
> > Here's another piece of feedback: Last night I gave an overview of 
> Derby to the San Francisco Java User's Group. A developer asked 
> whether the growth of the in-memory database could be bounded. He had 
> a use case which we didn't explore in depth but which involved 
> periodically truncating the database. I asked him to bring his 
> requirements to the Derby user list so that we could feed them into 
> your spec effort. Here are my takeaways:
> >
> > * It would be great to be able to bound the growth of the in-memory db
> >
> > * It would be great if the memory occupied by deleted records could 
> be released
> >
> > Thanks,
> > -Rick
> >
> > Kristian Waagan wrote:
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > In Derby 10.5 an in-memory back end, or storage engine, was 
> included. It stores all the data in main memory, with the exception of 
> derby.log. If this is news to you, and you want a quick intro to it, 
> see [1] and [2].
> > >
> > > I'm trying to gather some feedback on whether the current 
> implementation is found acceptable, or if there are additional 
> features people would like to see. I expect some wishes to emerge, and 
> I plan to record these on the wiki page [1]. The page can then be used 
> to guide further work in this area.
> > >
> > > To start the discussion, I'll list some potential features and 
> tasks. Feel free to comment on any one of them either by replying to 
> this thread, or by adding your comments to [1]. It can be a +1 or -1 
> on the feature itself, a suggestion for a new feature, or details on 
> what a feature should look like.
> > >
> > >
> > > * Documentation
> > > Must at least document the JDBC subsubprotocol, and also explain 
> how to delete in-memory databases.
> > > If new features are added, these must be documented as well.
> > >
> > > * Deletion of in-memory databases
> > > Currently the only ways to delete an in-memory database are to 
> restart the JVM or use a static method that isn't part of Derby's 
> public API. A proper mechanism for deletion should be added.
> > >
> > > * Automatic deletion on database shutdown (or when last connection 
> disconnects)
> > >
> > > * "Anonymous in-memory databases"
> > > A database which only the connection creating it can access, and 
> when the connection goes away the database goes away.
> > >
> > > * Automatic persistence
> > > The database could be persisted to disk automatically based on 
> certain criteria. The most obvious ones are perhaps on a fixed 
> interval and on JVM shutdown.
> > >
> > > * Monitoring
> > > The most basic information is how many in-memory databases exist 
> in the current JVM, and how big they are. How should this information 
> be presented? Should it be available to anyone having a connection to 
> the current JVM?
> > >
> > > * No derby.log
> > > Include a class in Derby that will discard everything written to 
> derby.log.
> > >
> > >
> > > Thank you for your feedback,
> >
> >
>
>


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