Mailing-List: contact derby-user-help@db.apache.org; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: "Derby Discussion" <derby-user@db.apache.org>
Received-SPF: pass (asf.osuosl.org: local policy)
Reply-To: <msegel@segel.com>
From: <derby@segel.com>
Sender: "Michael Segel" <msegel@segel.com>
To: "'Derby Discussion'" <derby-user@db.apache.org>
Subject: RE: How Open Source Works (was Re: Spawning Data on Multiple
 Directories)
Date: Fri, 5 May 2006 11:00:13 -0500
Organization: MSCC
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
	charset="US-ASCII"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
In-Reply-To: <445B6269.3030800@apache.org>
Thread-Index: AcZwUZiCbEkj1mS8TFSk30Z/CfVM1wACQ7oQ
Message-Id: <20060505160236.DF7CA46B73@dbrack01.segel.com>


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Daniel John Debrunner [mailto:djd@apache.org]
> Sent: Friday, May 05, 2006 9:34 AM
> To: Derby Discussion
> Subject: Re: How Open Source Works (was Re: Spawning Data on Multiple
> Directories)
> 
> derby@segel.com wrote:
> 
> > Thus, any involvement of IBM and Sun are going to be limited in scope in
> > order to avoid the potential of "leakage" of patented and/or licensed
> IP. It
> > appears that their scope is limited to "bug fixes" only.
> 
> That is plainly not true.
> 
> IBM and Sun have assigned engineers on Derby that have implemented many
> features, written documentation & whitepapers, setup regression testing,
> run additional testing, produced releases, answered user & developer
> questions and also fixed bugs.
> 
[mjs] 
Ok. 
Lets look at what you just wrote and what I said?

Where in what you wrote is there any discussion of net new technology being
introduced by either Sun or IBM?

I would suggest that you consult with someone in IBM legal and have a
serious discussion about IP.

I seem to recall SCO's lawsuit against IBM contains issues on this topic.
SCO did make claims that IBM did allow some "IP leakage" to occur.... ;-)

Oh there' more, but since this is an open forum, I'm not allowed to discuss
it. ;-)

But I digress.

It seems that you fail to recognize that the actions you have listed occur
because its required by both IBM and Sun to support their commercial
operations... In short, these actions are consistent with a "break/fix"
model. So what I posted is not incorrect.

> People from outside IBM and Sun have also done all of the above. That's
> what Apache Derby open source is about, a community of people working
> together.
> 
> Dan.

[mjs] 
I think that there must be an outbreak of SVS occurring. (SVS == Silicon
Valley Syndrome). The paragraph was discussing IBM and Sun involvement in
Derby.  In context, both IBM and Sun as commercial entities that are
publicly traded companies have a fiduciary responsibility to their
shareholders to protect IP that has competitive value. 

Preventing leakage in to code/projects under Apache is a high priority.
Again, talk to IBM's legal about IP and IP protection. 

I find your post highly interesting.  

Corporations do not perform altruistic acts.