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From <de...@segel.com>
Subject RE: How Open Source Works (was Re: Spawning Data on Multiple Directories)
Date Thu, 04 May 2006 19:49:39 GMT


Your subject line is a tad dangerous. 

While Apache is "open source", it is only one model of OpenSource.
There's Eclipse, the Linux Kernel, and individual apps under GPL like
Dovecot that all have different models of control over the opensource.

But since you're both a member of Apache and IBM, lets focus on the three
individual groups: IBM, SUN and Apache since they all have a vested

First and foremost, being open source and being a commercial product are not
mutually exclusive. (Sendmail, Dovecot, MySQL and of course Derby prove

Derby is both an "open source" database, along with a "commercial" product.
Note that both IBM and SUN are selling support for Cloudscape and JavaDB
respectively. Both pledge to keep the codestreams consistent with Derby
which implies that any "fixes" made by IBM or Sun will be placed back in to
the public eye.

Now your comments regarding Apache being a "volunteer" based approach to
software development... 

That again is not mutually exclusive, of having either IBM or Sun step up
and "volunteer" some of their resources that are supporting Cloudscape /
JavaDB and to help "direct" the future architect of Derby.

And that's the point.

The amount of resources required to drive any major restructuring of Derby's
framework would require the involvement of a corporation stepping up and
"volunteering" the services of their employees. (Hmmm. Come to think of it,
you're an IBM employee... ;-)

The point of my postings is that such an endeavor is more than just a single
Jira issue it would actually encompass several issues. It would also have a
major impact on existing Derby/Cloudscape implementations... Since both IBM
and Sun are selling support services, they both have a vested interest in
the future development of Derby. 

So, it again appears that you fail to grasp the situation and how software
is developed. 

I am kind of shocked that you don't realize the importance of identifying
stakeholders and aligning your ideas to their needs. That's consulting 101,
or actually software development 101. 

Specifically to this situation, both IBM and Sun hold potential resources
that have the necessary skills to drive this sort of redesign. And since
this *is* Apache, these resources, could not even "volunteer" on an
individual level without first gaining the approval of their employer.

So, rather than add constructive input, you seem to detract from the issue
at hand.

This is not the first post from users of Derby who want advanced features.
Rather than look at each feature individually, its important to see the
larger picture.

So why don't you focus on that?

But hey! What do I know? 
Its not like I've worked for Informix/IBM, or ran my own shop. ;-)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jean T. Anderson [mailto:jta@bristowhill.com]
> Sent: Thursday, May 04, 2006 10:45 AM
> To: Derby Discussion
> Subject: How Open Source Works (was Re: Spawning Data on Multiple
> Directories)
> derby@segel.com wrote:
> <snip>
> > This goes back to the larger issue is the need to consider a look at
> > redesigning Derby's framework to allow for options to be
> installed/removed
> > at the time of deployment. (And there are some headaches even there
> too...)
> >
> > The point is that Derby is growing in popularity and certain larger
> issues
> > than just quick fixes that can be addressed in a single JIRA issue need
> to
> > be addressed.
> <snip>
> It's time for a reminder to the list of how software development works
> at Apache because it *is* open source and it *isn't* commercial. This
> can sometimes be a bit confusing to new users who are familiar with how
> commercial products work.
> The first thing to understand is *individuals* volunteer to tackle
> various tasks. Here are some relevant snippets from
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html :
>    "Projects are normally auto governing and driven by the people who
>     volunteer for the job. This is sometimes referred to as "do-ocracy"
>     -- power of those who do. This functions well for most cases."
>    "All of the ASF including the board, the other officers, the
>     committers, and the members, are participating as individuals.
>     That is one strength of the ASF, affiliations do not cloud the
>     personal contributions.
>     Unless they specifically state otherwise, whatever they post on any
>     mailing list is done *as themselves*. It is the individual
>     point-of-view, wearing their personal hat and not as a mouthpiece
>     for whatever company happens to be signing their paychecks right
>     now, and not even as a director of the ASF."
> But, now lest it look like everybody is working diligently solely as an
> individual (and possibly at cross purposes with others), a lot of
> community coordination and contribution occurs on the Apache mail lists.
> The http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html page has lots of
> helpful context.
> At any rate, Derby depends on the community to work together as a whole
> to change the product.
> How can Derby users actively contribute to these changes?
> First, you can open Jira issues to report problems you have stumbled
> upon. More information is at
> http://db.apache.org/derby/DerbyBugGuidelines.html . However, remember
> that volunteers fix issues -- here's a valuable snippet from
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/faq.html#what-is-apache-NOT-about :
>     What is Apache not about?
>     To [... jean deleted text to highlight tail of sentence ...] demand
>     someone else to fix your bugs.
> Second, you can vote on Jira issues that you feel strongly should be
> fixed. The Derby developers do look at the votes.
> Third, if you want to participate even more in the Derby development
> process, you're welcome to subscribe to derby-dev@db.apache.org. That's
> where core development discussions occur and decisions get made.
> Fourth, if you want to actually start doing development, the
> http://wiki.apache.org/db-derby/ForNewDevelopers page has wonderful
> suggestions and tips for new Derby developers.
> Whether a particular user decides to volunteer or not, it's still
> helpful to understand how Apache works.
>  -jean

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