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From <de...@segel.com>
Subject RE: Developing a UI for Derby
Date Fri, 27 Jan 2006 17:12:08 GMT


You do raise some good points.

If you look at other databases, the idea of a GUI tool to help manage the database has always
been a necessary feature.

Informix has had dbaccess and onmonitor that ship with the engine, so there exists a precedence.
Dbaccess is for users to develop databases, schemas and to also run sql code. Onmonitor is
for maintaining the engine. (Overkill for cloudscape/derby/javaDB.)

While going to Aqua Data Studio, you're walking away from the Apache Licensing. This is key
because many people want this tool for commercial purposes.

IBM will take interest because they still have Cloudscape.
Sun will take interest because they now offer JavaDB.

While one can go out and create a tool from scratch, it may be advisable to make it a plug
in to Eclipse. Since IBM/Oracle/etc all support Eclipse, getting commercial grade developer
support may be a possibility. Also you're not re-inventing the wheel so to speak. (meaning
faster development time and shorter time to production and value.)

The nice thing about eclipse is that you have a framework that has plug ins for UML among
other things. So you could, in theory take advantage of that....

-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Sanford [mailto:mzsanford@aol.com] 
Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 10:29 AM
To: Derby Discussion
Subject: Re: Developing a UI for Derby

Hello all,

I agree a UI is nice when you are trying out new dev libraries. 
Something so you can quickly evaluate if you want to pursue this or not. 
Having said that, I think it's a terrible off-topic use of time to build 
a GUI. Derby is a database, and as such should do one thing and do it 
very well (even if it is a rather large thing to do). I would suggest 
that we just solicit someone like Aqua Data Studio 
(http://www.aquafold.com/) to add us to the first-tier list of databases 
and point users to that. I only suggest Aqua because it was very 
recently asked about on this list and confirmed to work and does have a 
personal/educational license. I am sure there are other options I am not 
aware of with friendlier licensing that could be made to work well with 
Derby. Or perhaps the Apache DB project should start work on a new GUI 
outside of the Derby project as part of the maintenance portion of the 
mission statement.

Just my €0.02

-- Matt Sanford

afkham@gmail.com wrote:
> Hi Duminda,
> I gues lots of ppl will appreaciate if you could develop a GUI for
> Derby. Even programmers will apreaciate it. Why should the life of a
> programmer be harder? We should promote the usage of good tools. May
> be we can have a vote on this?
> Regards
> Azeez
> On 1/27/06, Veaceslav Chicu <cs@infologic.fr> wrote:
>> how much non programmers look directly in derby?
>> derby is a tool for programmers, programmers are users of derby (see
>> their applications)
>> users use applications
>> no need for a derby specific gui, derby expose SQL and jdbc interface,
>> which are standard
>> best regards,
>> Slavic
>> Andrus Adamchik wrote:
>>> I'd say go with standalone as well. It makes sense because Derby itself
>>> is a database, not a development framework, so there is a good chance
>>> that many potential users of the GUI won't be IDE users at all.
>>> Andrus
>>> On Jan 27, 2006, at 10:33 AM, Manyi Lu wrote:
>>>> A GUI for derby is a great idea. I have used SquirreL, but it lacks
>>>> some functionality, and it is under LGPL not Apache license.
>>>> A stand alone GUI would be better, people tend to use different IDEs.
>>>> Manyi
>>>> duminda wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>  What does the community most wanted, Eclipse or Stand alone?.
>>>>>   Duminda
>>>>>     ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>     From: Satheesh Bandaram
>>>>>     To: Derby Discussion
>>>>>     Sent: Friday, January 27, 2006 12:59 PM
>>>>>     Subject: Re: Developing a UI for Derby
>>>>>     Sounds nice. Derby doesn't have its own GUI. This page at Apache
>>>>> Derby lists several known GUI tools that work with Derby. Are you
>>>>> thinking of a stand-alone tool or on some framework... like Eclipse?
>>>>>     http://db.apache.org/derby/integrate/misc.html#Products+by+Type
>>>>>     Satheesh
>>>>>     duminda wrote:
>>>>>>     Hi,
>>>>>>          I'm interested in developing a GUI for Derby with Apache
>>>>>> licence.
>>>>>>     Schema browser
>>>>>>     alter table (column/constraint)
>>>>>>     DML (insert/delete/update)
>>>>>>          This will be something like "Toad" to "Oracle".
>>>>>>          Is there any tool already exist?
>>>>>>          Regards!
>>>>>>     Duminda
> --
> Thanks
> Afkham Azeez


We love flattery, even though we are not deceived by it, 
because it shows that we are of importance enough 
to be courted.

    -Ralph Waldo Emerson, writer and philosopher (1803-1882)

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