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From Michael Segel <mse...@segel.com>
Subject Re: Derby and portability
Date Thu, 17 Nov 2005 19:07:17 GMT
On Thursday 17 November 2005 11:31, Jean T. Anderson wrote:

Sorry if I wasn't clear.

Yes, I am well aware of what an Open Source project entails.
(Apache vs GPL ... etc...)

My point was that even within an Open Source environment, there can still be 
coordination amongst contributors and how to establish guidelines for 
assessing severity and assigning volunteer resources to tackle the problem.

There are several licensing schemes and models for managing "Open Source" 
code. Apache is just one of them. ;-)

But this is not the point.

In order to "fix" issues, there has to be some concensus on some design 
decisions. For example, if you're going to modify the "ALTER TABLE" command, 
you have to consider a couple of things. Cascading the change, how to handle 
NULLs and Constraints. Order of precedence between containers and data... 

So who makes these decisions? Are they always taken to a vote? 
(Design by committee?)

Its not a question of demanding that something gets fixed. 
Its a question of establishing a common way of assigning priority as to what 
should be addressed. Or an approach to a design.

As to volunteering? Sorry, unlike a couple people here, I'm not paid to play 
here. ;-) I've got to earn my salary and my clients' needs come first.

> Michael Segel wrote:
> > ...
> > Looking at Derby's Jira, there are over 300 open issues.
> > ...
> > I did a quick scan and picked out a couple.
> > DERBY-396,
> > DERBY-616,
> > DERBY-713 a clone of DERBY-47
> >
> > Now which of these are bugs?
> > DERBY-396 asks for the addition of standardized ALTER support to tables.
> > Is this a bug because its saying that Derby doesn't comply with the ANSI
> > standard? Is this a CRITICAL issue?
> >
> > Then looking at DERBY-47 and DERBY-713.
> >
> > This is a bug. This is critical. This is something that shouldn't be too
> > difficult to fix.  (Why anyone would take an IN (xxx,yyy) and add the
> > BETWEEN to make it a range is beyond me... Were this an actual commercial
> > product, this would be a "drop everything and fix this" priority.
> These points make a good lead-in for a description of how software
> development works at Apache because it *is* open source and it *isn't*
> commercial.
> The first thing to understand is individuals volunteer to tackle various
> tasks. Here are some relevant snippets from
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html :
>     "Projects are normally auto governing and driven by the people who
>      volunteer for the job. This is sometimes referred to as "do-ocracy"
>      -- power of those who do. This functions well for most cases."
>     "All of the ASF including the board, the other officers, the
>      committers, and the members, are participating as individuals.
>      That is one strength of the ASF, affiliations do not cloud the
>      personal contributions.
>      Unless they specifically state otherwise, whatever they post on any
>      mailing list is done *as themselves*. It is the individual
>      point-of-view, wearing their personal hat and not as a mouthpiece
>      for whatever company happens to be signing their paychecks right
>      now, and not even as a director of the ASF."
> Here's another valuable snippet from
> http://www.apache.org/foundation/faq.html#what-is-apache-NOT-about :
>      What is Apache not about?
>      To [... jean deleted text to highlight tail of sentence ...] demand
>      someone else to fix your bugs.
> If you look at the derby-dev archives, you might occasionally see
> somebody cross the edge into "demanding". A typical response might be
> "If you care strongly about this issue, please dive in and help fix it".
> But, now lest it look like everybody is working diligently solely as an
> individual (and possibly at cross purposes with others), there is a lot
> of community coordination and contribution that occurs on the Apache
> mail lists. The http://www.apache.org/foundation/how-it-works.html page
> has lots of helpful context.
> And where Derby is concerned, Kathey asked for users to vote on the Jira
> issues they would like to see fixed:
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/db-derby-user/200509.mbox/%3c431F2
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/db-derby-user/200510.mbox/%3c43446
> > The point I'm trying to make is that if we look at JIRA there are over
> > 300 open issues and the classification of what is critical and what is a
> > bug are subjective.
> >
> > There needs to be guidelines.
> > While DERBY-616 may be a bug, I wouldn't call it critical.
> Somebody else might see DERBY-616 critical for his or her own need --
> and might step up to the plate to fix it (or help fix it).
> > This is important because for Derby to be a success, you need to have a
> > realistic priority of what needs to be fixed or enhanced.
> And fixers who volunteer to fix it.
>   -jean

Michael Segel

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