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From "David W. Van Couvering" <David.Vancouver...@Sun.COM>
Subject Re: Derby Development and IDEs?
Date Thu, 20 Oct 2005 03:44:42 GMT
Let's see, my thoughts: NetBeans and Eclipse are definitely the big ones 
out there, and you can expect to see strong support and ongoing 
innovation.  There are those of us on the Derby team that are working 
with NetBeans to improve Derby support; I expect there are also folks 
who are working with the Eclipse folks to improve Derby support.

I used to work with Kava and I really liked it.  Too bad they missed the 
open source wave and instead got sucked into some big company -- I can't 
remember who any more.  It's nice that the two main IDEs for Java are 
both free and open source.  No more sneaking VC++ CDs from your friends' 


Michael J. Segel wrote:
> Sorry if this is slightly off topic, but since the individuals on this list 
> are doing actual development with Derby, thought I might be able to get a 
> decent survey on what combinations seem to work best....
> I've been "playing" around with the following java IDEs: NetBeans, Eclipse, 
> and Websphere App Dev (Based on Eclipse).
> Now I realize that choosing an IDE is pretty personal, but I hope we can be 
> honest about what works and what doesn't.
> Now I've used to use Kawa, way back when, so if someone has another 
> recommendation, please feel free to step up.
> NetBeans:  This is an OpenSource IDE that I believe is bundled and 
> downloadable from the Sun Java site. Has a hook to PointBase, didn't see 
> anything to allow Derby or any other database. 
> Positives: Nice look and feel, easy to get around, however, when I want to 
> expand the code window to a full screen for easier editing, not that straight 
> forward.
> Negatives: No easy way to add in Derby.
> 		They lock their generated code sections which makes life a little more 
> difficult.  I'm not really happy with how they auto generate some of their 
> code. Makes things a little difficult to get things done. In some cases, hand 
> written GUI code is still faster to generate.
> Note: A simple example is if you try to generate some code that is similar to 
> the tutorials. Not that easy to do. ( I think one example would be if you 
> wanted to set an action listener for each menu where each menu item would 
> modify a status string.)
> Eclipse 3.1:	This is an opensource Apache project driven IDE. Lots of nice 
> bells and whistles, albeit a little rough around the edges. My Linux version 
> craps out quite a bit, while I haven't pushed the window's version that hard.
> Pluses:	Its free.
> 		It allows for visual development of GUI elements.
> 		Great RDBMs connectivity. Derby, Informix, DB2... (Ok I'll even mention 
> Oracle...;-).
> 		Has all the built in features that would allow one to write good code and 
> test against a local database for Unit testing/ Bean Testing.
> 		Has the ability to also deal with architecting issues (UML)...
> 		Doesn't block you from adding your own code in to the generated code.
> Negatives...
> 	1) Used primarily on my Linux box. Flakes out and dumps on me a couple times 
> a day. (Could be my set up, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say that 
> there's still some gaps.)
> 	2) Location of some of the components not in the ideal place. Yet easy to 
> expand the code window. Note you can move some of the components to different 
> views so that take's care of some of the problems.  With WS App Dev sharing 
> some of the same heritage, see my comparison below...
> Websphere AD:	Based on the same technology as Eclipse. Seems to be more 
> stable. (I only have a window's copy.) Easiest to work with. Allowing more 
> freedom in mixing my built gui stuff with their base frames. (This is true of 
> Eclipse.)  I haven't tried importing my Derby stuff to that platform, (next 
> step) but Websphere is Eclipse.
> A good example would be a Mercedes E55 and then a Mercedes E55 AMG (AMG is an 
> aftermarket company that tunes up your Mercedes to a higher performance rig. 
> Adds about 10-20K to the base price of the car, if not more.... ;-)
> Bottom line. I felt that there was enough of a difference to justify the price 
> difference between WS and Eclipse.
> Ok having said all of that, what other tools are out there and what are your 
> opinions of them?
> As a consultant, I'll use what ever gets toss'd at me. However, I'm open to 
> all ideas that make sense.
> Again, while this may be a little off topic, I think it would aid the group in 
> promoting good working enviornments for Derby development.
> I realize that my experiences come from trying to deal with these IDES and get 
> up to speed in a short time. Other's experiences and insights will vary. 
> (Thats why I'm trying to gain a concensus.... ;-)
> Cheers!
> -Mike

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