Return-Path: Delivered-To: apmail-db-derby-dev-archive@www.apache.org Received: (qmail 50254 invoked from network); 30 Jun 2009 22:14:24 -0000 Received: from hermes.apache.org (HELO mail.apache.org) (140.211.11.3) by minotaur.apache.org with SMTP; 30 Jun 2009 22:14:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 20647 invoked by uid 500); 30 Jun 2009 22:14:34 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-db-derby-dev-archive@db.apache.org Received: (qmail 20571 invoked by uid 500); 30 Jun 2009 22:14:34 -0000 Mailing-List: contact derby-dev-help@db.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: Delivered-To: mailing list derby-dev@db.apache.org Received: (qmail 20563 invoked by uid 99); 30 Jun 2009 22:14:34 -0000 Received: from nike.apache.org (HELO nike.apache.org) (192.87.106.230) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 22:14:34 +0000 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.2 required=10.0 tests=HTML_MESSAGE,SPF_PASS X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (nike.apache.org: local policy) Received: from [76.13.9.96] (HELO web65704.mail.ac4.yahoo.com) (76.13.9.96) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with SMTP; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 22:14:21 +0000 Received: (qmail 48169 invoked by uid 60001); 30 Jun 2009 22:14:00 -0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.com; s=s1024; t=1246400039; bh=/LF0ZPFxbrMadpAg7hwoy1qJ8R0Xpq9XvZRCIJJ1RLc=; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=xIaEee7nzNQAI9PeJK61dUlY4PtGy8skp676TCFZu8nBhUBzWVtnafqf2duAYGTuX0xtxQgNxA3Y+u30Og94FjMuRoBaGS+64b1E48YWDkrf9YNZMwXLZb9jUW3HjykyByQ+HoiP9f2tGqsayXdDN9oNleEDKdL/IvrdgtIkeKM= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; h=Message-ID:X-YMail-OSG:Received:X-Mailer:Date:From:Subject:To:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=5RYPewz4UZwosUAUM7OTUGES7+TVK/zVekMV4zYTxinwHSCufa962Upbt+WteCg0hcnUb23NFTYC5h04KHwSuJk1MzhKxRot4QV0dpv9+CmrmTspFGG0iJWNPw7iI2s5UnluRiFBntgO5uL/DajOy8jpmDdZlauthO+s4XmjCYQ=; Message-ID: <943487.48034.qm@web65704.mail.ac4.yahoo.com> X-YMail-OSG: lfsSxjgVM1kwaxN.KKrczG9R74T7oN3vBr9IK99JWnNA5u4PljKdZSWoalI9Nv4q.0aQ1okJHkYW_hIPfRKBIy795A5rGKaq_3SM5oZow4GQvUrJh6sfe6FqybNxA_nuYYfE298Ibquoh9iPH3b3pw_jq2BE5ECJbzPoHkGdSf4OKFtoJENltSC5YF64Ve26QLw1QOElNJEu7_jJKhSoRgtb7s.gT2P6pEZ6tyKmCfIPqqTvdATeRIyJcvFEQS2UjTwoW5V3cbEA4F7.mePH5tDVzdTt_uyGpPAAKZsYzcyPB4TI3pkZ20N8IKJ7eaJD80Hhqrqr6fIEAzNjG4Uv Received: from [24.4.13.182] by web65704.mail.ac4.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:13:59 PDT X-Mailer: YahooMailRC/1357.22 YahooMailWebService/0.7.289.15 Date: Tue, 30 Jun 2009 15:13:59 -0700 (PDT) From: Lily Wei Subject: Re: Derby setup screencast To: Tiago Espinha , derby-dev@db.apache.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-1973738574-1246400039=:48034" X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org --0-1973738574-1246400039=:48034 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Tiago:=0A=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Thank you so much for the prompt reply= . Your reply is right in line with my question.=0AAs far as copy junit.jar = question goes, I mean to have those instruction in the web site in case the= y did not catch the steps in the video. I would love to see the web site as= well. I am sure it will be a good one.=0A=0AThanks,=0ALily=0A=0A=0A=0A=0A_= _______________________________=0AFrom: Tiago Espinha = =0ATo: Lily Wei =0ASent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 1:49:40 = AM=0ASubject: Re: Derby setup screencast=0A=0AHello Lily,=0A=0AThank you fo= r your support. It's really nice to see that the effort is appreciated :-)= =0A=0APlease have a look at the comments inline:=0A=0A=0AOn Tue, Jun 30, 20= 09 at 5:17 AM, Lily Wei wrote:=0A=0AHi Tiago:=0A>=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 As a new comer, I really appreciated the video. It is cl= ear and easy to follow. Thank you so much for sharing this with us. =0A>=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 I haven=E2=80=99t read the web site yet so it can be very p= ossible that I am asking something you already put it in your web site. If = that is the case, just pardon my 2 cents. =0AI mentioned in the video "a we= bsite". This website would however be Derby's. Like, on the same page that = we would put the video, we'd also put those links and additional info for t= he users. So in reality, this doesn't exist yet. =0A=0A=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 I= do have few comments in turn of video.=0A>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Software and = Hardware requirements:=0A>1.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 You mentio= n in video that you are using junit 3.8.2. I am using 3.8.1. Is it okay to = use 3.8.1? I did try junit4.6 and it did not work that well.=C2=A0 Can we s= pecify in web site that what version is okay other than 3.8.2? Can we list = the version for all the require software?=0A=0ATo be honest, here I was jus= t following what the wiki page says somewhere; it says that we should use v= ersion 3.8.2 but I'm guessing that other versions work as well. However, fo= r compatibility's sake, I think we should all use 3.8.2. Otherwise you migh= t end up using something that was deprecated in 3.8.2 and while a change th= at you made works for you, it won't work for those using 3.8.2.=0A=0AAs for= the rest of the software (Eclipse, Ant, svn, etc), there's no real require= ment in the versions right now - it would be only necessary to specifically= point out the versions if a new one is released that breaks backwards comp= atibility. I guess it doesn't hurt to list on the website the current versi= ons though.=0A=0A=0A2.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 For branch 10.4 = or less, Derby users have to use JDK1.5 and JDK1.4 for branch 10.3.=C2=A0 C= an we state information like this in the web site too? JDK 1.4 will not be = supported after certain period of time. What information should we say to D= erby user regarding that?=0A=0AWe can also mention this on the website inde= ed. At this point I don't think JDK 1.4 is supported anymore. Sun's website= reports that its end-of-life was on October 2008. Still, it seems like we = still need it and I don't think Sun will stop having it available to downlo= ad any time soon (although let me say that downloading that JDK is very pai= nful... I don't like having to fill out a form each time I have to download= it).=0A=0ASo as for information to the user, perhaps we'd give none as thi= s isn't really of much concern I think. Even the mentioning of other branch= es might be a bit of information overload. I'm guessing that when someone a= rrives at Derby they'll be dealing with the trunk first for a while.=0A=C2= =A0=0A3.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 After trunk source code has be= en copy to local machine, is there a way for user to verify everything has = been copied?=0A=0ATechnically, at the end of the svn checkout it should say= "at revision xxxxxx". The thing in the screencast was that I had to do it = in two takes, and when I made the second I no longer had the output from th= e svn checkout. People can still do svn update and svn stat to see if every= thing's in order. This could also be mentioned on the website or in a possi= ble redo of the screencast.=0A=C2=A0=0A4.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0 Thank you for showing how to set up JAVA_HOME and ANT_HOME and verify t= he installation by typing java and ant. I think these are very good points = for new comer.=0A>Compiling the code:=0A>1.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 After =E2=80=98ant clobber=E2=80=99, I often need to manually remove= jars/sane/*. This only happens after successfully compile the code. Howeve= r, can we give use some hint on doing this?=0ASure, this has actually happe= ned to me before. It would be nice to investigate further into it though. M= aybe it is a file permission issue? =0A=0AEclipse:=0A>1.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 I did not see in the video in turn of how to setup svn p= lug ins with Eclipse. Can we have some steps about that?=0A>2.=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 If users really want to build Derby using Eclipse,= is it possible for us to show them how to do that too. I know it is not re= commended with ant. Coming from SAP, my intuition is always to build with E= clipse. I would love to see some information about that. =0A=0AThis is poss= ible but I defend that this belongs in a separate screencast. We have two N= etbeans projects in tools/ide but these are outdated since the latest Netbe= ans version is 6.5. We also have the following wiki page:=0Ahttp://wiki.apa= che.org/db-derby/BuildingDerby=0A=0AHere we have the instructions to get Su= bclipse working with Derby's code, but I was never able to get it to work p= roperly (I also didn't try that hard). Perhaps based on this I could make a= nother screencast just on how to get Subclipse up and running, and with tha= t done we could also add an Eclipse project to the tools/ide folder.=0A=C2= =A0=0A3.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 If I already create my project= , how I can move JRE System Library to the top?=0AWhen that's the case, you= right-click on the project, go to Properties and under Java Build Path you= should have the "Order and Export" tab. Perhaps this can also be mentioned= on the website? =0A=0A=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Testing:=0A>1.=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Can we have information on the web site in turn of= how to manually copy junit.jar?=0A=0AI'm not sure I understand your questi= on here. I copied it manually just by drag & drop from the zip file.=0A=C2= =A0=0A2.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Can we spend a little time on = how to read the result after finish running Suites.All? What to expect and = what one should look for to know nothing fail? i.e. No NulPointerException = in the derby.log=0AMy metric to know that nothing failed is the output I ge= t in the command line. If no failures or errors are mentioned, I think it i= s safe to say that everything completed properly. This probably can also be= mentioned in the video. =0A=0A=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 For each section, c= an we have FAQ pages for each subject? In general, I found FAQ very helpful= to new comer with certain questions in mind. =0A>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0 I am writing this as a new comer of Derby. Again, thank you so much = for doing the video. It is such a good idea. =0A>=C2=A0=0AI think we can po= st the FAQ pages alongside with the video, so that if the viewers still hav= e questions that they didn't get answers to, they can go along and read the= pages. =0A=0ASincerely,=0A>Lily=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A>=0A________________________= ________=0AFrom: Tiago Espinha =0A>To: derby-dev@db.apa= che.org=0A>Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 12:06:59 PM=0A>Subject: Derby setup = screencast=0A>=0A>=0A>Hello everyone,=0A>=0A>I took the initiative of creat= ing a screencast to help with the setup of the Derby environment. In my exp= erience and from what I have been able to see, the learning curve for getti= ng started with development on Derby is a bit steep, so I thought that the = community could benefit from what seems to be the fashion nowadays: a scree= ncast. It's usually easier and more interesting to be taught rather than re= ading page-loads of information so that was my motivation to do the said sc= reencast.=0A>=0A>Here's the link to it: http://www.vimeo.com/5376690=0A>=0A= >Note that you do have the option of going full-screen (so that you can see= all the details), and it's on Vimeo for two reasons: it allows me to uploa= d HD content and allows me to upload quite big videos. Vimeo seems to be a = bit commercial though, so in the long run perhaps it'd be a good idea if th= is was self-hosted.=0A>=0A>Anyway, after talking with Kathey on IRC, she ap= preciated the idea and asked me to post it to the list, so that it could ev= entually get posted on the website. At this point I'd like to get feedback = on the video itself; the things that you think I should change and redo and= whether you agree that this should be posted up on the website.=0A>=0A>I w= elcome suggestions and critics, so please bring them on.=0A>=0A>In the futu= re we could eventually have more screencasts, like for instance how to setu= p Derby in an embedded environment. But that would be for further along the= path. Right now, this one video is what I have.=0A>=0A>Cheers,=0A>Tiago=0A= >=0A>=0A=0A=0A --0-1973738574-1246400039=:48034 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Tiago:
=0A
=0A
=0A
= =0A
     Thank you so much for the prompt reply. Yo= ur reply is right in line with my question.
=0A
As far as copy jun= it.jar question goes, I mean to have those instruction in the web site in c= ase they did not catch the steps in the video. I would love to see the web = site as well. I am sure it will be a good one.
=0A
 
=0A=
Thanks,
=0A
Lily
=0A

=0A
=0A
=0AFrom: Tiago Espinha <tiago@espinhas.net>
To: Lily Wei <lilywei@yahoo.com&g= t;
Sent: Tuesday, June 3= 0, 2009 1:49:40 AM
Subject:<= /B> Re: Derby setup screencast

Hello Lily,

Thank you f= or your support. It's really nice to see that the effort is appreciated :-)=

Please have a look at the comments inline:

=0A
On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 5:17 AM, Lily Wei <lilywei@yahoo.com> wrote:
= =0A
=0A
=0A
Hi Tiag= o:

=0A

     As a new comer, I really appreciated the = video. It is clear and easy to follow. Thank you so much for sharing this w= ith us.

=0A

    I haven=E2=80=99t read the web site yet s= o it can be very possible that I am asking something you already put it in = your web site. If that is the case, just pardon my 2 cents.

=0A
I mentioned in the video "a website". Th= is website would however be Derby's. Like, on the same page that we would p= ut the video, we'd also put those links and additional info for the users. = So in reality, this doesn't exist yet.
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A

=0A

    I do ha= ve few comments in turn of video.

=0A

    Software and Har= dware requirements:

=0A

1.    &n= bsp;  You mention in video t= hat you are using junit 3.8.2. I am using 3.8.1. Is it okay to use 3.8.1? I= did try junit4.6 and it did not work that well.  Can we = specify in web site that what version is okay other than 3.8.2? Can we list= the version for all the require software?

=0A
 
=0A
To be honest, here I was just followin= g what the wiki page says somewhere; it says that we should use version 3.8= .2 but I'm guessing that other versions work as well. However, for compatib= ility's sake, I think we should all use 3.8.2. Otherwise you might end up u= sing something that was deprecated in 3.8.2 and while a change that you mad= e works for you, it won't work for those using 3.8.2.

As for the res= t of the software (Eclipse, Ant, svn, etc), there's no real requirement in = the versions right now - it would be only necessary to specifically point o= ut the versions if a new one is released that breaks backwards compatibilit= y. I guess it doesn't hurt to list on the website the current versions thou= gh.

=0A
= =0A
=0A
=0A
=0A

=0A

<= SPAN>2.     = ;  For branch 10.4 or less, = Derby users have to use JDK1.5 and JDK1.4 for branch 10.3.  Can we state information like this in the web site too? JDK 1.4 will not= be supported after certain period of time. What information should we say = to Derby user regarding that?

=0A<= DIV>
We can also mention this on the website indeed. At this point I don= 't think JDK 1.4 is supported anymore. Sun's website reports that its end-o= f-life was on October 2008. Still, it seems like we still need it and I don= 't think Sun will stop having it available to download any time soon (altho= ugh let me say that downloading that JDK is very painful... I don't like ha= ving to fill out a form each time I have to download it).

So as for = information to the user, perhaps we'd give none as this isn't really of muc= h concern I think. Even the mentioning of other branches might be a bit of = information overload. I'm guessing that when someone arrives at Derby they'= ll be dealing with the trunk first for a while.
 
=0A=0A
=0A
=0A
= =0A

= =0A

3= .       After trunk source code has been copy to local machi= ne, is there a way for user to verify everything has been copied?

=0A

Technically, at the end of the = svn checkout it should say "at revision xxxxxx". The thing in the screencas= t was that I had to do it in two takes, and when I made the second I no lon= ger had the output from the svn checkout. People can still do svn update an= d svn stat to see if everything's in order. This could also be mentioned on= the website or in a possible redo of the screencast.
 
=0A=0A
=0A
=0A<= DIV>=0A

=0A

4.       Thank you for showing how to set up JAVA_HOME and= ANT_HOME and verify the installation by typing java and ant. I think these= are very good points for new comer.

=0A

Compiling the code:

=0A

1.       After =E2=80=98ant clobber=E2=80=99, I often need to manually = remove jars/sane/*. This only happens after successfully compile the code. = However, can we give use some hint on doing this?

=0A
Sure, this has actually happened to me before. It w= ould be nice to investigate further into it though. Maybe it is a file perm= ission issue?
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A

=0A

<= FONT face=3DCalibri>Eclipse:

=0A

1.  &nb= sp;    I did not s= ee in the video in turn of how to setup svn plug ins with Eclipse. Can we h= ave some steps about that?

=0A

2.   = ;    If users real= ly want to build Derby using Eclipse, is it possible for us to show them ho= w to do that too. I know it is not recommended with ant. Coming from SAP, m= y intuition is always to build with Eclipse. I would love to see some infor= mation about that.

=0A

Th= is is possible but I defend that this belongs in a separate screencast. We = have two Netbeans projects in tools/ide but these are outdated since the la= test Netbeans version is 6.5. We also have the following wiki page:
http= ://wiki.apache.org/db-derby/BuildingDerby

Here we have the instructi= ons to get Subclipse working with Derby's code, but I was never able to get= it to work properly (I also didn't try that hard). Perhaps based on this I= could make another screencast just on how to get Subclipse up and running,= and with that done we could also add an Eclipse project to the tools/ide f= older.
 
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A

=

=0A

3.   &nb= sp;   If I already crea= te my project, how I can move JRE System Library to the top?

=0A
When that's the case, you right-click on= the project, go to Properties and under Java Build Path you should have th= e "Order and Export" tab. Perhaps this can also be mentioned on the website= ?
=0A
=0A=0A
=0A
=0A

=0A

     Testing:

=0A

1.       Can we have information on the web site in turn of how to manua= lly copy junit.jar?

=0A

I'= m not sure I understand your question here. I copied it manually just by dr= ag & drop from the zip file.
 
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A

=0A

2.       Can we spend a little time on how to read the result after finish runn= ing Suites.All? What to expect and what one should look for to know nothing= fail? i.e. No NulPointerException in the derby.log

<= /DIV>
=0A
My metric to know that nothing failed is the outp= ut I get in the command line. If no failures or errors are mentioned, I thi= nk it is safe to say that everything completed properly. This probably can = also be mentioned in the video.
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A
=0A

=0A

     For= each section, can we have FAQ pages for each subject? In general, I found = FAQ very helpful to new comer with certain questions in mind.

= =0A

  = ;    I am writing this as a new comer of Derby. Again= , thank you so much for doing the video. It is such a good idea. =0A

 

=0A
I think we can post the FAQ pages a= longside with the video, so that if the viewers still have questions that t= hey didn't get answers to, they can go along and read the pages.
= =0A
=0A
=0A
=

=0A

Sincerely,

=0A

Lily


=0A

=0A
= =0A
=0AFrom: Ti= ago Espinha <tiago@espinhas.net>= ;
To: derby-dev@db.apache.org
Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 12:06:59 PM
<= SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject: Derby setup screencast=
=0A
=0A
=0A

Hello everyone,
=
I took the initiative of creating a screencast to help with the setup o= f the Derby environment. In my experience and from what I have been able to= see, the learning curve for getting started with development on Derby is a= bit steep, so I thought that the community could benefit from what seems t= o be the fashion nowadays: a screencast. It's usually easier and more inter= esting to be taught rather than reading page-loads of information so that w= as my motivation to do the said screencast.

Here's the link to it: h= ttp://www.vimeo.com/5376690

Note that you do have the option of goin= g full-screen (so that you can see all the details), and it's on Vimeo for = two reasons: it allows me to upload HD content and allows me to upload quit= e big videos. Vimeo seems to be a bit commercial though, so in the long run= perhaps it'd be a good idea if this was self-hosted.

Anyway, after = talking with Kathey on IRC, she appreciated the idea and asked me to post it to the list, so that it could= eventually get posted on the website. At this point I'd like to get feedba= ck on the video itself; the things that you think I should change and redo = and whether you agree that this should be posted up on the website.

= I welcome suggestions and critics, so please bring them on.

In the f= uture we could eventually have more screencasts, like for instance how to s= etup Derby in an embedded environment. But that would be for further along = the path. Right now, this one video is what I have.

Cheers,
Tiago=




=0A=0A --0-1973738574-1246400039=:48034--