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From Lily Wei <lily...@yahoo.com>
Subject Re: Derby setup screencast
Date Tue, 30 Jun 2009 22:13:59 GMT
Hi Tiago:
     Thank you so much for the prompt reply. Your reply is right in line with my question.
As far as copy junit.jar question goes, I mean to have those instruction in the web site in
case they did not catch the steps in the video. I would love to see the web site as well.
I am sure it will be a good one.


From: Tiago Espinha <tiago@espinhas.net>
To: Lily Wei <lilywei@yahoo.com>
Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 2009 1:49:40 AM
Subject: Re: Derby setup screencast

Hello Lily,

Thank you for your support. It's really nice to see that the effort is appreciated :-)

Please have a look at the comments inline:

On Tue, Jun 30, 2009 at 5:17 AM, Lily Wei <lilywei@yahoo.com> wrote:

Hi Tiago:
>     As a new comer, I really appreciated the video. It is clear and easy to follow.
Thank you so much for sharing this with us. 
>    I haven’t read the web site yet so it can be very possible that I am asking something
you already put it in your web site. If that is the case, just pardon my 2 cents. 
I mentioned in the video "a website". This website would however be Derby's. Like, on the
same page that we would put the video, we'd also put those links and additional info for the
users. So in reality, this doesn't exist yet. 

    I do have few comments in turn of video.
>    Software and Hardware requirements:
>1.       You mention in video that you are using junit 3.8.2. I am using 3.8.1.
Is it okay to use 3.8.1? I did try junit4.6 and it did not work that well.  Can we specify
in web site that what version is okay other than 3.8.2? Can we list the version for all the
require software?

To be honest, here I was just following what the wiki page says somewhere; it says that we
should use version 3.8.2 but I'm guessing that other versions work as well. However, for compatibility's
sake, I think we should all use 3.8.2. Otherwise you might end up using something that was
deprecated in 3.8.2 and while a change that you made works for you, it won't work for those
using 3.8.2.

As for the rest of the software (Eclipse, Ant, svn, etc), there's no real requirement in the
versions right now - it would be only necessary to specifically point out the versions if
a new one is released that breaks backwards compatibility. I guess it doesn't hurt to list
on the website the current versions though.

2.       For branch 10.4 or less, Derby users have to use JDK1.5 and JDK1.4 for branch
10.3.  Can we state information like this in the web site too? JDK 1.4 will not be supported
after certain period of time. What information should we say to Derby user regarding that?

We can also mention this on the website indeed. At this point I don't think JDK 1.4 is supported
anymore. Sun's website reports that its end-of-life was on October 2008. Still, it seems like
we still need it and I don't think Sun will stop having it available to download any time
soon (although let me say that downloading that JDK is very painful... I don't like having
to fill out a form each time I have to download it).

So as for information to the user, perhaps we'd give none as this isn't really of much concern
I think. Even the mentioning of other branches might be a bit of information overload. I'm
guessing that when someone arrives at Derby they'll be dealing with the trunk first for a
3.       After trunk source code has been copy to local machine, is there a way for
user to verify everything has been copied?

Technically, at the end of the svn checkout it should say "at revision xxxxxx". The thing
in the screencast was that I had to do it in two takes, and when I made the second I no longer
had the output from the svn checkout. People can still do svn update and svn stat to see if
everything's in order. This could also be mentioned on the website or in a possible redo of
the screencast.
4.       Thank you for showing how to set up JAVA_HOME and ANT_HOME and verify the installation
by typing java and ant. I think these are very good points for new comer.
>Compiling the code:
>1.       After ‘ant clobber’, I often need to manually remove jars/sane/*. This
only happens after successfully compile the code. However, can we give use some hint on doing
Sure, this has actually happened to me before. It would be nice to investigate further into
it though. Maybe it is a file permission issue? 

>1.       I did not see in the video in turn of how to setup svn plug ins with Eclipse.
Can we have some steps about that?
>2.       If users really want to build Derby using Eclipse, is it possible for us
to show them how to do that too. I know it is not recommended with ant. Coming from SAP, my
intuition is always to build with Eclipse. I would love to see some information about that.

This is possible but I defend that this belongs in a separate screencast. We have two Netbeans
projects in tools/ide but these are outdated since the latest Netbeans version is 6.5. We
also have the following wiki page:

Here we have the instructions to get Subclipse working with Derby's code, but I was never
able to get it to work properly (I also didn't try that hard). Perhaps based on this I could
make another screencast just on how to get Subclipse up and running, and with that done we
could also add an Eclipse project to the tools/ide folder.
3.       If I already create my project, how I can move JRE System Library to the top?
When that's the case, you right-click on the project, go to Properties and under Java Build
Path you should have the "Order and Export" tab. Perhaps this can also be mentioned on the

>1.       Can we have information on the web site in turn of how to manually copy

I'm not sure I understand your question here. I copied it manually just by drag & drop
from the zip file.
2.       Can we spend a little time on how to read the result after finish running Suites.All?
What to expect and what one should look for to know nothing fail? i.e. No NulPointerException
in the derby.log
My metric to know that nothing failed is the output I get in the command line. If no failures
or errors are mentioned, I think it is safe to say that everything completed properly. This
probably can also be mentioned in the video. 

     For each section, can we have FAQ pages for each subject? In general, I found FAQ
very helpful to new comer with certain questions in mind. 
>      I am writing this as a new comer of Derby. Again, thank you so much for doing
the video. It is such a good idea. 
I think we can post the FAQ pages alongside with the video, so that if the viewers still have
questions that they didn't get answers to, they can go along and read the pages. 

From: Tiago Espinha <tiago@espinhas.net>
>To: derby-dev@db.apache.org
>Sent: Monday, June 29, 2009 12:06:59 PM
>Subject: Derby setup screencast
>Hello everyone,
>I took the initiative of creating a screencast to help with the setup of the Derby environment.
In my experience and from what I have been able to see, the learning curve for getting started
with development on Derby is a bit steep, so I thought that the community could benefit from
what seems to be the fashion nowadays: a screencast. It's usually easier and more interesting
to be taught rather than reading page-loads of information so that was my motivation to do
the said screencast.
>Here's the link to it: http://www.vimeo.com/5376690
>Note that you do have the option of going full-screen (so that you can see all the details),
and it's on Vimeo for two reasons: it allows me to upload HD content and allows me to upload
quite big videos. Vimeo seems to be a bit commercial though, so in the long run perhaps it'd
be a good idea if this was self-hosted.
>Anyway, after talking with Kathey on IRC, she appreciated the idea and asked me to post
it to the list, so that it could eventually get posted on the website. At this point I'd like
to get feedback on the video itself; the things that you think I should change and redo and
whether you agree that this should be posted up on the website.
>I welcome suggestions and critics, so please bring them on.
>In the future we could eventually have more screencasts, like for instance how to setup
Derby in an embedded environment. But that would be for further along the path. Right now,
this one video is what I have.

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