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From Rick Hillegas <Richard.Hille...@Sun.COM>
Subject Re: Influencing the standards which govern Derby
Date Thu, 20 Jul 2006 21:41:01 GMT
Thank for the useful discussion. A couple comments follow:

Daniel John Debrunner wrote:

>Rick Hillegas wrote:
>>I would like to understand how the community influences the standards
>>which govern Derby:
>>1) SQL - I've been participating in Derby for a year now. Over the past
>>year I don't recall any discussion about a need to change the SQL
>>standard. We have proposed new language in rare cases not covered by the
>>ANSI volumes. However, I don't recall any attempt to contact the SQL
>>group and try to change their spec. Do we need to influence this spec
>>and if so, how do we propose to do so?
>I've work with the SQL group through IBM's representives (since I work
>for IBM). So far from Derby it's been more around getting clarifications
>and pointing out areas where the spec is unclear or wrong. I don't know
>how an individual would get involved in this process.
>You could ask the Postgres folks what why do, or the generic open source
>database mailing list - hackers@osdbconsortium.org .
I posed this question on the hackers list. Postgres apparently doesn't 
participate in the ANSI effort. I was pointed at the following helpful 


According to the information there, a community member would rent an 
ANSI seat for $500 a  year.

>>2) JDBC - There has been substantial discussion about the upcoming JDBC4
>>spec.. Fortunately for us, the spec lead is a member of our community.
>>In several cases he has taken our viewpoint back to the JDBC expert
>>group and advocated our position. However, we don't know who will lead
>>the expert group for JDBC5. How do we expect to influence the next rev
>>of JDBC?
>The ASF is on the JCP "Executive Committee for J2SE/J2EE", in addition
>it seems individuals can join the JCP for $0.
>So it seems plenty of opportunity to get involved in the next JDBC.
>>3) DRDA - Over the last year, I failed to get a Boolean datatype into
>>the DRDA spec. This stemmed from the internal dynamics and pay-for-play
>>nature of the spec's governing body, the DBIOP Consortium. How do we
>>expect to influence the DRDA spec?
>Do you have a summary of what happened, I remember e-mails that the
>DBIOP was getting back together and now your comments that the process
>didn't work, but I don't recall seeing anything inbetween.
Here't the sequence of events so far:

a) The DBIOP Consortium is a committee of companies who use DRDA, mostly 
to connect to DB2. The Consortium lives under the umbrella of the Open 
Group. The committee was dormant last August when I raised the 
possibility of adding some new datatypes to the DRDA spec. Last 
November, representatives from the involved companies held a phone 
conference, in which we agreed to revive the DBIOP Consortium. It turned 
out that other companies were interested in adding new datatypes too. 
The participating companies were:

Rocket Software
Starquest Ventures

b) After that a website was set up and IBM and I drafted some proposals 
on the side. The proposals were not circulated publicly.

c) In April, the Open Group contacted me, saying that the DBIOP 
Consortium was a pay-to-play arrangement: participating companies were 
being asked to pay $25K/year to be Consortium members.

d) In mid-May, the involved companies met again. Some companies 
expressed tentative willingness to move forward. However, I could not 
commit my employer (Sun Microsystems) to paying $25K/year.

e) I have not heard anything since.

>>If there's a general solution which covers all of these cases, that's great. 
>>If we handle each spec differently, that's fine too. I'd just like some discussion
and guidance. 
>I would guess it's going to be different in each case.

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