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From "Jean T. Anderson" <...@bristowhill.com>
Subject Re: Holistic getting started approach
Date Mon, 06 Feb 2006 17:31:40 GMT
Daniel John Debrunner wrote:
> ... 
> What really jumped out at me was the very first things a user has to do
> is understand and set classpaths. Something that causes the most
> problems and is tricky to get right in a manual way, is the first thing
> we hit users with. To my mind seems like a very good way to lose users
> at the first step, either because they want to issue some SQL right away
> but we make them setup environment variables first, or they get
> frustrated by ClassNotFoundExceptions due to minor typos.
> 
> Now I understand where Stan is coming from, he's once supported this
> product and saw the endless class path issues, so why not explain it up
> front.
> 
> I would take a different approach, start out with something that works
> and get users into executing SQL through ij as soon as possible. As the
> tutorial moves on, explain class paths later, once they have seen all
> the powers of Derby.
> 
> Note that what I'm talking about is maybe 2% of Stan's proposed
> tutorial, but it's the first 2% where one stands the greatest risk to
> lose the most people.
> 
> I see the requirement to set classpath as a weakness in the product,
> which the tutorial is trying to work around. So what could be done
> better in the product that would help this tutorial?
> ... 
<excellent example snipped>
> ...
> So that's just one example where hopefully addressing something in the
> product would make the tutorial better and lead to more happy Derby
> users. I would encourage others to think along similar lines when
> looking at the tutorial, manual or anything else that's aimed at making
> Derby easier, namely to see if some other piece would make it even easier.
> 
> Dan.
> 

For anyone not on derby-user, here's timely feedback wrt classpath 
posted this morning:

http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/db-derby-user/200602.mbox/%3cOF11BAA9F3.CC0ACBC0-ON8525710D.005595AF-8525710D.0055E876@steinmart.com%3e

Any way we can enhance Derby to remove the requirement to set classpath 
up front would be great. In the meantime, some short-term boosts in the 
documentation would be helpful.

  -jean


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