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From Mike Matrigali <mikem_...@sbcglobal.net>
Subject Re: Discussion of how to map the recovery time into Xmb of log --Checkpoint issue
Date Fri, 03 Feb 2006 17:46:59 GMT
You are seeing the same results as Oystein reported as part of
DERBY-799.  If no one submits a patch for DERBY-799 I will probably
submit something simple before the next candidate release is
cut.  Something on the order of sleeping in between I/O's to
stop checkpoint from flooding I/O.

Kristian Waagan wrote:
> Mike Matrigali wrote:
> 
>>Long answer above, some comments inline below.
>>
>>I think runtime performance would be optimal in this case, runtime
>>performance is in no way "helped" by having checkpoints - only either
>>not affected or hindered.  As has been noted checkpoints can cause
>>drastic downward spikes in some disk bound applications, hopefully we
>>will some changes into 10.2 to smooth those spikes down.  But the
>>reality is the more checkpoints on a system that is disk i/o bound the
>>more the app is going to slow down, if you are not disk i/o bound then
>>the checkpoints may have little affect.
>>  
>>
> 
> Thank you for the explanations Mike. I run a TPC-B like load against 
> Derby and plotted some performance metrics for two different 
> configurations; one where the default checkpointing interval was used, 
> and one where it was set to maximum. I ran for 1 hour, and for the 
> second case, I don't think a checkpoint was started (the test took a 
> long time to exit when the database was shut down, as almost 100 MB of 
> log had to be handled). Please have a look at the attached figures, and 
> see if they are as you expected.
Yes TPC-B on a fast/multi-processor machine is probably the worst case
scenario for the current default checkpoint settings.  The default aims
more at typical xact throughput apps rather than extreme highen as you
are measuring.   The hope was that anyone trying to run such extreme
app would be able to set the checkpoint interval to a reasonable 
setting.  Discussion on the list and the above bug continues about ways
to avoid the spikes.

The amount of log probably was not much of a factor for shutdown speed.
Assuming you were doing a clean shutdown, I expect the time was just
waiting for all the pages in the cache to go to disk and be sync'd.
> 
> What bothers me in particular, are the spikes for the run with default 
> checkpointing interval. As you can see, the throughput drops to (nearly) 
> zero for 10 second periods, which is pretty bad. The checkpoint should 
> not interfere with user activity in such a way. I have talked to some 
> people about this, and we suspect there might be some kind of 
> OS/filesystem issue that we're running into. This might be caused by the 
> way the checkpoint writes pages to disk - write all dirty pages to disk, 
> then sync at the very end. Depending on the underlying 
> OS/filesystem/caches, the effects may vary. My runs were done on Solaris 
> with the UFS filesystem. I also attatched a second graph where I used 
> directio (option 'forcedirectio' when mounting).
I believe there was some info posted onto the list about previous 
analysis about what was causing the 10 second drops.  I seem to remember
it was even somewhat jvm specific.
>  
> Unfortunately I do not have logs for disk io activity for these runs. 
> The data and logs were stored on different physical disks (used 
> 'logDevice'). The database was approx 17 GB, the page cache 0.5 GB. 
> Embedded Derby, 16 clients/connections.
with any performance analysis the following kinds of info is interesting:
o sysinfo ouput (gets jvm, version, and some other stuff)
o description of machine (mostly I look for #processors and speed/type 
of processors)
o description of disks (scsi vs ide, is write cache enabled?, are 
multiple disks raided to look like one disk to derby?)


> 
> Any comments on the graphs attached?
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Kristian
> 
>>There are only 2 reasons for checkpoints:
>>1) decrease recovery time after a system crash.
>>2) make it possible to delete log file information (if you don't have
>>   rollforward recovery backups).  Without a checkpoint derby must
>>   keep all log files, thus space needed in the log directory will
>>   always grow.
>>
>>The background writer thread should handle this, it should not consider
>>this an extreme case.  If there were no background writer and no
>>checkpoints then the following would happen:
>>
>>1) the page cache grows to whatever maximum size it has gotten to
>>2) requests for a new page then use clock to determine what page to
>>   throw out.
>>3) if the page picked to throw out is dirty, then it is first written
>>  to the OS with no sync requested.  It is up to the OS whether this
>>  is handled async or not.  Most modern OS's will make this be an
>>  async operation unless the OS cache is full and then it will turn
>>  into a wait for some i/o (maybe some other i/o to free OS resource).
>>  The downside is that a user select at this point may end up waiting
>>  on a synchronous write of some page.
>>4) if the page to throw out is not dirty, then it can just be thrown
>>   out without any possible I/O wait.
>>5) In both cases 3 and 4 the user thread of course has to wait on the
>>   I/O to read the page into the cache.  Depending on the OS cache this
>>   may or may not be a "real" I/O.
>>
>>The job of the background writer is to make case 3 less likely, that's
>>it.  Note if you try to keep the whole cache clean then you may flood
>>the I/O system unnecessarily if the app tends to write the same page
>>over and over again, then it is better to leave it dirty in cache until
>>needed.  The clock tends to do this by throwing out less used pages
>>vs. more used pages.
>>
>>Kristian Waagan wrote:
>>
>>  
>>
>>>Hi Mike,
>>>
>>>A question totally on the side of this discussion: Do you, or anyone
>>>else, have any opinion about how the "runtime performance" of Derby
>>>would be affected by not having checkpoints at all, say for a large
>>>database (around 20 GB) and 0.5 GB of page cache in a disk-bound
>>>application load?
>>>
>>>Is the Derby background-writer (and Clock.java) written/designed to
>>>handle such "extreme cases" without major performance degradation?
>>>Any information on the goal/function of the background-writer?
>>>What mechanisms would kick in when the page-cache is full and Derby
>>>needs slots for new pages?
>>>    
>>>
>>mechansism described above, it it particular to whether page to throw
>>out is dirty vs. clean.  There isn't really dependency on full.  In
>>a busy "normal" system the cache is always full and I don't think we
>>do anything special about weights of dirty vs. clean.  more work could
>>be done in this area as has been discussed.
>>  
>>
>>>I do know this is not a smart way to handle things, I'm just curious
>>>what people think about this! And I am not seeking answers about long
>>>recovery times and log disk space usage ;)
>>>    
>>>
>>Hey in my benchmark days with other db products, it was standard
>>procedure to configure test system to either have no checkpoints or if
>>required ONE checkpoint during the run.  Derby is no different for this.
>>
>>I almost always try to separate the checkpoint affect from the
>>performance throughput I am trying to measure (unless optimizing the
>>checkpoint is what I am trying to measure).  My guess is that default
>>checkpoint interval is making WAY too many checkpoints for your
>>throughput by default.
>>  
>>
>>>
>>>-- 
>>>Kristian
>>>
>>>
>>>    
>>>
> [snip - map recovery time into Xmb of log stuff]
> 
> 
> 
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