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From Mike Matrigali <mikem_...@sbcglobal.net>
Subject Re: SELECT ... FOR UPDATE not working?
Date Mon, 22 Aug 2005 19:09:42 GMT
I welcome SQL standard experts opinion, but I believe either 
implementation is correct.  Especially with read committed I don't
think the standard says anything one way or another.

My experience with users is that most would prefer the Derby
implementation, as they tend to have the system retain the least
amount of locks possible - especially in read committed mode.  I
agree that it is confusing.  I also think some DB's add to the
SQL to allow the behavior that you were expecting, ie. lock every
row in the select exclusively and hold the lock until end of
transaction (or maybe in UPDATE vs. exclusive mode).  But I don't
think the standard addresses this, but again I am not an expert
in the SQL standards.


The above comment assumes a lock based isolation control system. 
Versioning would actually be better for many db clients.  Does anyone
know of public domain information about implementing a version
isolation system - sort of like what Oracle does.

Kristian Waagan wrote:
> Thanks for the input Mike. Great explanation!
> Should a link to "Locking, concurrency, and isolation" (or even "Types 
> and scope of locks in Derby systems" - "Update locks") in the "Tuning 
> Derby" manual  be added to the reference manual for the description of 
> the SELECT statement?
> 
> Regarding my test, you are right about the Derby behavior - my mistake; 
> the update is not allowed when running with repeatable read or 
> serializable. My test sets both isolation level and autocommit 
> explicitly. It also does next() on all resultsets.
> 
> The behavior of Derby compared with MySQL (started with 
> --default-storage-engine=innodb) and PostgreSQL is still different 
> though. PostgreSQL and MySQL does not allow the update no matter what 
> transaction isolation level is used. Can you say anything about which 
> behavior is correct/expected?
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Kristian
> 
> Mike Matrigali wrote:
> 
>> In order to understand and compare across multiple db's there are 2
>> important things we need to know:  transaction isolation and autocommit
>> behavior.
>>
>> The default in derby is read committed isolation level, and
>> autocommit=true.  I don't know what the defaults are for the other
>> databases.  To be safe when comparing I suggest any test explicitly
>> set both as part of the test.  From your description it sounds like
>> you have autocommit=false, but it is good to be explicit.
>>
>> Does your test do any next() calls on the result set?  Derby almost
>> always streams rows to the application, so locking for all rows
>> affected by a query is only guaranteed if the application actually
>> does a next() through all rows.  Because your table does not have
>> any indexes as described, derby will use row locking for repeatable
>> read, and read committed, but will use table locking for serializable.
>>
>> Derby in read committed will release locks at end of statement for
>> any row which is actually not updated as part of select for update,
>> in read committed isolation level.
>> During processing of the query it actually gets update locks which
>> are either upgraded to exclusive and held to end of transaction or
>> released if the row is not updated.   If your application needs
>> to hold locks until end transaction on selects it must use either
>> repeatable read or serializable isolation.
>>
>> Did you see the described behavior using repeatable read and doing
>> next() calls in both the first and second select?
>>
>> Kristian Waagan wrote:
>>
>>  
>>
>>> Hello,
>>>
>>> I stumbled across a possible bug with the SELECT ... FOR UPDATE clause.
>>> I have found several sources of information regarding this statement,
>>> with partly conflicting contents.
>>>
>>> First of all, I wrote a simple JDBC test application making use of the
>>> statement. I ran this on Derby and two other database systems. Derby did
>>> not behave as the two others (more on this later).
>>>
>>> Second, the reference manual states that the statement is supported, and
>>> that it must be used to obtain updateable resultsets.
>>>
>>> Third, the JIRA issue 231
>>> (http://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-231) is regarding support
>>> for SELECT ... FOR UPDATE. It is unresolved and unassigned. Is this a
>>> stale issue?
>>>
>>> The JDBC application I wrote consisted of two threads accessing a single
>>> table: locktesttbl (ID INT, VALUE INT). I inserted 5 rows
>>> (1,1),(2,2),...,(5,5). The first thread executes 'SELECT * FROM
>>> locktesttbl WHERE ID=1 FOR UPDATE', waits 10 seconds, closes the
>>> resultset, executes 'SELECT * FROM locktesttbl WHERE ID=1', closes
>>> resultset and commits. The second thread, which is started 2 seconds
>>> after the first one, executes 'UPDATE locktesttbl SET VALUE=100 WHERE
>>> ID=1' then commits.
>>>
>>> The only time the selected VALUE field in the first thread was equal at
>>> the beginning and the end of the transcation, was when the transcation
>>> isolation level was set to SERIALIZABLE. At all other levels, VALUE was
>>> 100 at the end of the transaction (before commit). When I did this with
>>> the two other systems (MySQL and PostgreSQL), VALUE was always 1 within
>>> the transaction. This suggests SELECT .. FOR UPDATE is broken in Derby,
>>> and that the single instance of correct behavior seen is due to the
>>> transaction isolation level alone. I have not looked into the source
>>> code on this.
>>>
>>> Does anyone have any comments on this?
>>>
>>> I will add a JIRA bug issue under category SQL for this one in a few
>>> days (awaiting comments).
>>>
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Kristian
>>>
>>>
>>>   
> 
> 
> 
> 


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