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From scott hutinger <s-hutin...@wiu.edu>
Subject Re: Derby documentation in XML DITA
Date Mon, 06 Dec 2004 19:19:55 GMT
Jeff Levitt wrote:

>--- scott hutinger <s-hutinger@wiu.edu> wrote:
>
>  
>
>>sissonj@insession.com wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>scott hutinger <s-hutinger@wiu.edu> wrote on
>>>      
>>>
>>06/12/2004 05:21:24 PM:
>>    
>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>sissonj@insession.com wrote:
>>>>
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>scott hutinger <s-hutinger@wiu.edu> wrote on
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>06/12/2004 11:38:59 AM:
>>    
>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>I haven't followed that entire thread, nor can I
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>find that thread 
>>    
>>
>>>>>>currently.  But, a log plugin; which I think?
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>followes which files 
>>    
>>
>>>>>>       
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>have 
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>>changed, has been developed using
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>java.util.logging.  I think it 
>>    
>>
>>>>>>       
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>allows 
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>>forrest to know which files have changed but I
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>think it runs on a 
>>    
>>
>>>>>>dynamic site, and I am uncertain if the loging
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>plugin is hooked into 
>>    
>>
>>>>>>forrest for this yet.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I will keep my eyes on that and research it a
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>bit.
>>    
>>
>>>>>>Also, I am uncertain about the release date of
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>0.7.  I think Jean has 
>>    
>>
>>>>>>the docs up to spec for 0.6, which I think is
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>needed for 0.7.  Cocoon 
>>    
>>
>>>>>>had a problem creating some graphic files which
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>would create errors in 
>>    
>>
>>>>>>       
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>>site logs, that was fixed in cocoon, but I don't
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>know if forrest 
>>    
>>
>>>>>>       
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>updated 
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>>>       
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>cocoon with 6.0 after the release.  I can look
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>into that on monday.
>>    
>>
>>>>>>scott
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>Refer to the links in the comments of the
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>following JIRA issue:
>>    
>>
>>>>>http://nagoya.apache.org/jira/browse/DERBY-79
>>>>>
>>>>>It would be nice if the JIRA issue is used to
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>record progress on the 
>>    
>>
>>>>>documentation.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>Thanks for pointing this out.  What did you have
>>>>        
>>>>
>>in mind for the search 
>>    
>>
>>>>on a pc?  I was wondering if you were thinking of 
>>>>        
>>>>
>>something like the 
>>    
>>
>>>>adobe extensible metadata platform, or something
>>>>        
>>>>
>>like that?  I really 
>>    
>>
>>>>haven't looked at pdf search techniques.  I guess
>>>>        
>>>>
>>someone could attach 
>>    
>>
>>>>derby to pdf files somehow :-)
>>>>
>>>>scott
>>>>
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>>John
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>Hi Scott,
>>>
>>>I haven't spent any time with cocoon, FOP etc, but
>>>      
>>>
>>I have seen other 
>>    
>>
>>>commercial software products provide a PDF document
>>>      
>>>
>>for each of their 
>>    
>>
>>>manuals and a searchable index that covers all the
>>>      
>>>
>>manuals. 
>>    
>>
>>>I'm not sure if any of the open source PDF file
>>>      
>>>
>>generation solutions 
>>    
>>
>>>provide something like:
>>>      
>>>
>>http://www.adobe.co.uk/epaper/tips/acr5search/main.html
>>    
>>
>>>I wasn't trying to suggest that Derby be somehow
>>>      
>>>
>>used to search PDF 
>>    
>>
>>>documentation (not sure if that is what you thought
>>>      
>>>
>>I said).. 
>>    
>>
>>>I would like the ability to search within acrobat
>>>      
>>>
>>reader across the 
>>    
>>
>>>different derby manuals and also have the ability
>>>      
>>>
>>to have links from one 
>>    
>>
>>>manual to the other (as I found I had to refer to
>>>      
>>>
>>more than one manual to 
>>    
>>
>>>perform some Derby tasks).
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>OK, I understand.  I guess I didn't read the issue
>>correctly all the way.
>>
>>    
>>
>>>The following page describes the search
>>>      
>>>
>>functionality and it also 
>>    
>>
>>>mentioned PDF metadata (that you mentioned), so it
>>>      
>>>
>>sounds like you might 
>>    
>>
>>>have given yourself away as the PDF expert :-)
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>Actually, I don't know anything about PDF.  I did
>>notice that FOP 
>>supports PDF version 1.3.  So I don't think embedded
>>XML within the PDF 
>>file would work.  It does have Document Level
>>Navigation, Destinations, 
>>Bookmarks etc.  I did notice in FOP if memory
>>problems start to exist, 
>>turn off forward references.  But the point I guess
>>is, do any other new 
>>document formats exist that might be better than
>>PDF?  I know we will 
>>still output to PDF, but thought some other cool
>>document display 
>>architecture might exist.   I don't know, as I am
>>clueless about such 
>>things.  I can look a bit though.
>>
>>Anyone know of some other display architecture?
>>I'll look more into FOP to see what all it supports.
>>
>>thanks,
>>scott
>>
>>
>>http://www.planetpdf.com/enterprise/article.asp?ContentID=6521
>>    
>>
>>>Cheers,
>>>
>>>John
>>>
>>> 
>>>      
>>>
>
>I have an idea that may just solve most if not all of
>these issues.  We can use Eclipse.
>
>Check out the Cloudscape version of the help:
>http://publib.boulder.ibm.com/infocenter/cldscp10/index.jsp
>
>That entire site was created using Eclipse's help
>system package.  To learn more about creating an
>Eclipse help system, read about it here:
>
>http://dev.eclipse.org/viewcvs/index.cgi/~checkout~/org.eclipse.platform.doc.isv/reference/misc/help_standalone.html?rev=1.26.2.2
>
>And to deploy a help system on the web:
>
>http://dev.eclipse.org/viewcvs/index.cgi/~checkout~/org.eclipse.platform.doc.isv/reference/misc/help_infocenter.html?rev=1.27.2.2
>
>Long story short, we could host it on the Derby site
>using an Apache http server.  I'm not good with the
>technical aspects of this, so hopefully someone can
>read up on whether the requirements for hosting this
>would be allowed by Apache.
>
>But if we can, then all we have to do is use
>saxon/cocoon to output xhtml from the DITA (I've
>already tested that with success), as well as create
>an XML nav tree from the ditamap, also using
>saxon/cocoon (again, tested successfully), and then
>throw those into an eclipse help system plugin.  The
>result would be almost exactly what you see on the
>Cloudscape infocenter.  We'd have full advanced
>pre-indexed search on all the docs at once, a much
>more advanced nav tree, and once we set it up and take
>a look at how related links work within the system, we
>could modify the dita files to add links between the
>docs where needed.  We'd still have PDF docs for those
>who want them, of course.
>
>I took the liberty of throwing my tested xhtml and and
>xml nav tree into a plugin and testing it locally, and
>it looked alright.
>
>Does this sound like it could work?
>
>Jeff
>
>  
>
I think it sounds like a good idea myself.  I would be willing as a 
user, to use jetty or something else, and host the help on my own 
machine during development.  I don't see why others wouldn't if that is 
what they wanted.  I guess a doc on how to use it might be needed :-)

I don't know about apache.org, one would think that would be allowed 
since they are the builder of such things.  But I think it could have 
dual use, a local machine and a website if it all worked out.

scott

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