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From Jeff Genender <jgenen...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [DISCUSSION] Support WS-Notification in CXF
Date Fri, 08 Jul 2011 17:11:53 GMT
I stated interceptors just because the CXF's architecture is wrapped around that (no pun intended)
;-)

But plugability will be important or at least an API with hooks would work.  This way someone
can use Camel or roll their own implementation, and we can let CXF just care about the WSDL-Java
wrapper.  When i said interceptor, I meant something similar to WS-Security was what i had
in mind, and then an API can be pluggable for hooks.  Just an idea that seems to play well
with what is already there.

Jeff

On Jul 8, 2011, at 10:43 AM, Guillaume Nodet wrote:

> Then I think we are in agreement.  All the code related to ws-addressing
> support in WS-Notification would have to be rewritten when getting rid of
> JBI.    However, if you were talking about CXF interceptors, I'm not sure
> that's the right way to go, as implementing a web service purely using
> interceptors might be a bit more complicated than just using wsdl -> java
> and filling the gaps.  That does not prevent the introduction of
> pluggability in any way though.
> 
> On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 18:24, Jeff Genender <jgenender@apache.org> wrote:
> 
>> Oh its not meant to be harsh... please don't take it personally... ;-) I am
>> well aware of its implementation since we dissected the heck out of it ;-)
>> You also seem to be aware of its issues too from your response below ;-)
>> 
>> We tried to leverage it on a project that needed to make extensive use of
>> pub/sub along with pull points and it was extremely lacking in its delivery.
>> Hence we more or less rolled our own.
>> 
>> Yes you are spot on with the WS-Addressing... that was a *big* area of
>> trouble we had and an area we also had to skirt to some degree.
>> 
>> I really think the WS-Notification needs a much more pluggable approach to
>> the entire model (which is what we ended up writing to a degree).  Its
>> somewhat hard to genericize the pub/sub implementation, especially when the
>> pull point is somewhat open season on what you can place in its return.  I
>> think the interceptor pattern works real well and hence becomes a perfect
>> complement to the CXF architecture. Areas for interception are synchronous
>> vs asynchronous (i.e. pull point immediate return value vs. pub/sub), etc.
>> 
>> Just my 3.14159 cents ;-)
>> 
>> Jeff
>> 
>> 
>> On Jul 8, 2011, at 10:00 AM, Guillaume Nodet wrote:
>> 
>>> That's a bit harsh.  It is functional and implements all the required
>> bits
>>> afaik.   There are some missing stuff such as complex topics expressions
>>> though.
>>> 
>>> Most of the problem come from WS-Addressing: it is heavily used in
>>> WS-Notification, but given the component was designed to work inside the
>> JBI
>>> bus, the behavior is not the one you would necessarily expect when using
>>> pure web services and where ws-addressing would target http services, not
>>> services in the JBI bus.  Also, I agree the component has been
>> disfunctional
>>> in ServiceMix 4, but mostly due to the fact that the underllying
>>> ws-addressing related JBI piece of code had a behavior change between 3.x
>>> and 4.x.
>>> And fwiw, the ws-notification component completely rely on JMS for the
>>> implementation.
>>> 
>>> Do you have more detailed problems / missing features ?
>>> 
>>> On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 16:07, Jeff Genender <jgenender@apache.org>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Jul 8, 2011, at 7:47 AM, Guillaume Nodet wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> We're not talking about implementing something new here.  We have an
>>>>> existing code base in ServiceMix that we may work on to remove the ties
>>>> onto
>>>>> JBI.  We were just wondering if CXF would be a better place for it. 
 I
>>>> have
>>>>> really no problems with keeping it in ServiceMix fwiw.
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Well... lets be honest... the SMX version is pretty much non-functional
>> and
>>>> it only implements a subset of WSN.  I think it probably should be
>>>> re-written from scratch.
>>>> 
>>>> Jeff
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> Now if someone wants to start implementing a new WS-Eventing service,
>>>> that's
>>>>> completely unrelated to this issue.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Also, we don't actually use it internally in ServiceMix, so ServiceMix
>>>> has
>>>>> no requirements, but our we have some users that do use it, that's all.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Fri, Jul 8, 2011 at 14:40, Alessio Soldano <asoldano@redhat.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> I'm not sure of the exact requirements in ServiceMix, in any case
I
>>>>>> suggest evaluating the WS-Eventing spec from WS-ResourceAccess
>>>>>> http://www.w3.org/2002/ws/ra/ which is at CR level atm and is being
>>>>>> finalized *really* soon.
>>>>>> Cheers
>>>>>> Alessio
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 07/08/2011 11:36 AM, Freeman Fang wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi Team,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Recently we're discussing on Servicemix Dev mailling list about
>>>> redesign
>>>>>>> ws-notification component, previously it was designed as JBI
>>>>>>> ServiceEngine and need work together with BindingComponet(like
>>>>>>> servicemix-cxf-bc or servicmeix-http) over JBI bus, we currently
want
>>>> to
>>>>>>> make it working without any JBI stuff and we believe this is
more
>>>>>>> natural as ws-notification[2] actually is wsdl based and we think
>> move
>>>>>>> the ws-notification into CXF is more reasonable.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Though no concrete idea now, my gut feeling is that we can leverage
>> our
>>>>>>> jms transport to do this.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> How about we support WS-Notification in CXF? Any feedback is
>>>> appreciated.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> [1]
>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> http://servicemix.396122.n5.nabble.com/DiSCUSS-WS-Notification-td4563871.html
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> [2]http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=wsn
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Best Regards
>>>>>>> Freeman
>>>>>>> ---------------------------------------------
>>>>>>> Freeman Fang
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> FuseSource
>>>>>>> Email:ffang@fusesource.com
>>>>>>> Web: fusesource.com
>>>>>>> Twitter: freemanfang
>>>>>>> Blog: http://freemanfang.blogspot.com
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Alessio Soldano
>>>>>> Web Service Lead, JBoss
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> ------------------------
>>>>> Guillaume Nodet
>>>>> ------------------------
>>>>> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
>>>>> ------------------------
>>>>> Open Source SOA
>>>>> http://fusesource.com
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> ------------------------
>>> Guillaume Nodet
>>> ------------------------
>>> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
>>> ------------------------
>>> Open Source SOA
>>> http://fusesource.com
>> 
>> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> ------------------------
> Guillaume Nodet
> ------------------------
> Blog: http://gnodet.blogspot.com/
> ------------------------
> Open Source SOA
> http://fusesource.com


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