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From Jeff Genender <jgenen...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [CONF] Apache CXF > Commercial CXF Offerings
Date Thu, 03 Feb 2011 15:41:49 GMT
+1 and well said.

Jeff

On Feb 3, 2011, at 8:38 AM, Craig Tataryn wrote:

> Speaking as a member of the community (non-commiter outside of a few patches) I don't
have a problem with the claims which the CXF supporting companies make on their own site.
 They are paying people to forward the development of CXF, they should get to stick out their
chest and let it be known.  However, on the Apache side of things I think its enough to just
list a person's company next to their name/link in the committers page.  I don't think we
have to have blurbs about company's products.
> 
> As a community member when a company states they have "the most committers" on a project,
what I interpret from that is "our customer's fixes and needs get priority over that of the
proletariat".  I'm sorry if I offend any of the committers by that, it's just how I think.
 The fact of the matter is the "ninja committers" are working on behalf on the product their
company is creating.  Of course the good side of this is that CXF matures, even if its direction
is determined a less "open" nature.
> 
> Craig.
> 
> On 2011-02-03, at 9:14 AM, Eric Johnson wrote:
> 
>> I agree with Dan and Glenn. Commercial support makes CXF stronger and
>> provides a way for active committers (and some inactive one as well)
>> to earn a living while doing what they love doing.
>> Letting companies put up some marketing blurb on the support page
>> and/or on a dedicated Commercial Offering page does not hurt as long
>> as it is clearly marked as commercial.
>> As for allowing marketing statements that are more truthy than true, I
>> don't think it is a big deal.Who really cares if FuseSource, Talend,
>> and MuleSource all claim to have the most active committers or PMC
>> members. It doesn't make their offering any better or take away from
>> the strength of the CXF community. Besides we can police statements
>> like that and remove them if we so choose - as long as it is done
>> consistently.
>> Since there are now at least three decent size companies offering
>> commercial products based on CXF we should work out a policy about
>> where companies can put links back to their sites and list their
>> offerings. It would make it easier for companies to know what the line
>> is so they can avoid crossing it.
>> 
>> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 11:10 PM, Glen Mazza <gmazza@talend.com> wrote:
>>> OK, fine, providing they can link to such horn tooting pages from the
>>> support site.  Open source supporting companies hire marketing reps and I
>>> have no problem with them enticing users into getting commercial support.
>>> It's good for the community.  CXF cannot survive on arrogant inactive
>>> committers alone.
>>> 
>>> Glen
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 02.02.2011 22:28, Jeff Genender wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> -1... what is reputable?  Who decides who is "reputable"?  Am I reputable?
>>>> 
>>>> Apache is not about tooting your own horn.  Go back to your respective
>>>> company and have them purchase press releases and advertise on their sites.
>>>> Apache is not a locale for horn tooting.
>>>> 
>>>> Jeff
>>>> 
>>>> On Feb 2, 2011, at 7:23 PM, Glen Mazza wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Unless it is blatant lies (i.e., non-reputable companies), I say let
the
>>>>> companies do a little bit of advertising on the Support page, even if
they
>>>>> contradict each other or embellish a bit.  We want users to choose support,
>>>>> because it results in more hired people working on the projects.  Let
the
>>>>> support page be the "toot your own horn" page and instead enforce
>>>>> non-advertising throughout the rest of the manual, where everything does
>>>>> need to be strictly factual.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Keeping a loose leash on the Support page also helps minimize strife
>>>>> between teams.
>>>>> 
>>>>> In Manhattan there might be 300 places to buy pizza, about 75 of which
>>>>> claim to be "New York's Best Pizza!"  That's just advertising, it doesn't
>>>>> need to be taken seriously.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Glen
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 02.02.2011 20:50, Daniel Kulp wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Someone is paying attention... cool.  :-)
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Wednesday 02 February 2011 8:27:38 pm Benson Margulies wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Do we need to have these dueling claims for who employs how many
>>>>>>> committers / PMC members? Could we persuade both Talend and FUSE
to
>>>>>>> just say 'committers, get your red hot committers!'
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I'm in the process of cleaning things up a bit.   I've been chatting
>>>>>> with
>>>>>> various people on the trademark committee as well as others and one
>>>>>> "concern"
>>>>>> that has been expressed with some projects is project sites being
used
>>>>>> as
>>>>>> marketing vehicles for specific commercial offerings and products.
>>>>>> The
>>>>>> guideline I got was:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --------------------
>>>>>> PMCs can choose to have "these companies support our product" pages
if
>>>>>> they want.  But they have to be factual, non-advertisements; should
be
>>>>>> in specific places on the project's site; and must not be exclusive
>>>>>> (i.e. any other reputable company needs to be able to request to
add
>>>>>> links as well).
>>>>>> --------------------
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Step one was just to copy the information and localize it all to
a
>>>>>> specific
>>>>>> page.     Step two is the "factual, non-advertisement" part.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 8:23 PM,<confluence@apache.org>
  wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Commercial CXF Offerings
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Page added by Daniel Kulp
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Commercial CXF Offerings
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Apache CXF is a widely used project. As such several companies
have
>>>>>>>> build
>>>>>>>> products and services around CXF. This page is dedicated
to providing
>>>>>>>> descriptions of those offerings. Companies are definitely
encouraged
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> update this page directly or send a mail to the CXF PMC with
a
>>>>>>>> description of your offerings and we can update the page.
The products
>>>>>>>> and services listed on this page are provided for information
use only
>>>>>>>> to our users. The CXF PMC does not endorse or recommend any
of the
>>>>>>>> products or services on this page.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> FuseSource
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> FuseSource offers enterprise subscriptions that include Enterprise
>>>>>>>> Developer and Production Support on ActiveMQ, Camel, CXF
and
>>>>>>>> ServiceMix
>>>>>>>> - including Training, Consulting&   Mentoring. They also
employ most
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> the core committers on the projects to ensure you get the
best
>>>>>>>> possible
>>>>>>>> answers to all your support needs and your bugs fixed fast.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> MuleSoft
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> MuleSoft provides support for Apache CXF as a part of its
Mule
>>>>>>>> enterprise
>>>>>>>> subscription offering. Mule is a popular open source ESB
and
>>>>>>>> integration
>>>>>>>> platform, with support for SOAP web services, as well as
REST, JMS,
>>>>>>>> File
>>>>>>>> and over 100+ additional transports.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd provides training and support
for
>>>>>>>> CXF,
>>>>>>>> along with training and support for web services security
and SOA
>>>>>>>> based
>>>>>>>> on CXF.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Talend
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Talend provides enterprise level services and support for
Apache CXF
>>>>>>>> and
>>>>>>>> their Talend Service Factory product which is a repackaging
of CXF
>>>>>>>> including a full, pre-configured OSGi runtime container.
Talend also
>>>>>>>> has
>>>>>>>> a package of examples that demonstrate many of CXF's advanced
features
>>>>>>>> including JAX-RS use cases, OSGi deployments, Security, etc...
Talend
>>>>>>>> also employs the leading CXF committers that are experts
in all areas
>>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>>> CXF including JAX-RS, JAX-WS, WS-Security, etc... to make
sure any
>>>>>>>> bugs
>>>>>>>> and issues can be resolved quickly and accurately.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Change Notification Preferences
>>>>>>>> View Online | Add Comment
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Glen Mazza
>>>>> Software Engineer, Talend (http://www.talend.com)
>>>>> blog: http://www.jroller.com/gmazza
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Glen Mazza
>>> Software Engineer, Talend (http://www.talend.com)
>>> blog: http://www.jroller.com/gmazza
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Principle Technical Writer
>> Phone (781) 280-4174
>> Skype finnmccumial
>> E-Mail emjohnson@fusesource.com
>> Blog http://documentingit.blogspot.com/
> 


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