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From Jeff Genender <>
Subject Re: [CONF] Apache CXF > Commercial CXF Offerings
Date Thu, 03 Feb 2011 15:46:53 GMT
Well said, Dan.

And BTW... did you tell anyone the alcohol content of that beer? ;-)  Low blow man! ;-)


On Feb 3, 2011, at 8:41 AM, Daniel Kulp wrote:

> On Wednesday 02 February 2011 10:28:50 pm Jeff Genender wrote:
>> -1... what is reputable?  Who decides who is "reputable"?  Am I reputable?
> Umm....  was that last question rhetorical?   Do you really want me to answer 
> that?   Can you really trust someone who gets plastered on less than a single 
> bottle of beer.......
>   ;-)     
>> Apache is not about tooting your own horn.  Go back to your respective
>> company and have them purchase press releases and advertise on their
>> sites.  Apache is not a locale for horn tooting.
> Joking aside, that is the important thing to consider.  Apache projects are 
> supposed to be a level playing field for everyone involved.   One PMC member 
> does not have any more say than another PMC member, etc....    Yes, in a lot 
> of ways, "committed code rules over theoretical ideas", but in general, it 
> should be a level playing field.
> The other thing to keep in mind is the foundation IS a non-profit organization 
> and MUST operate in a way the reflects that status and protects that status.   
> There are legal ramifications of having anything from a non-profit to start 
> looking like a marketting vehicle for a for-profit organization.   The 
> trademarks (CXF is a trademark of the foundation) and such MUST be protected 
> and it's our duty as PMC members to make sure the marks are not being abused 
> or miss used.   
> Thus, it really is important to make sure, from a project perspective, that 
> the information on our site is purely informational, factually accurate, and 
> have no appearance of favortism and such.    If the landing zones at Fuse and 
> Talend and others want to toot their horn and promote their projects, that's 
> great.   Please do so.   On the Apache projects sites, that's should not be 
> tollerated.
> I have to admit, this last 6 months or so have been quite educational for me 
> about things like non-profit rules, trademark law, protection requirements, 
> etc...    Any of the Apache members or anyone on the Maven PMC knows more 
> about what I'm talking about, but it's definitely been interesting and 
> educational.   
> Dan
>> Jeff
>> On Feb 2, 2011, at 7:23 PM, Glen Mazza wrote:
>>> Unless it is blatant lies (i.e., non-reputable companies), I say let the
>>> companies do a little bit of advertising on the Support page, even if
>>> they contradict each other or embellish a bit.  We want users to choose
>>> support, because it results in more hired people working on the
>>> projects.  Let the support page be the "toot your own horn" page and
>>> instead enforce non-advertising throughout the rest of the manual, where
>>> everything does need to be strictly factual.
>>> Keeping a loose leash on the Support page also helps minimize strife
>>> between teams.
>>> In Manhattan there might be 300 places to buy pizza, about 75 of which
>>> claim to be "New York's Best Pizza!"  That's just advertising, it
>>> doesn't need to be taken seriously.
>>> Glen
>>> On 02.02.2011 20:50, Daniel Kulp wrote:
>>>> Someone is paying attention... cool.  :-)
>>>> On Wednesday 02 February 2011 8:27:38 pm Benson Margulies wrote:
>>>>> Do we need to have these dueling claims for who employs how many
>>>>> committers / PMC members? Could we persuade both Talend and FUSE to
>>>>> just say 'committers, get your red hot committers!'
>>>> I'm in the process of cleaning things up a bit.   I've been chatting
>>>> with various people on the trademark committee as well as others and
>>>> one "concern" that has been expressed with some projects is project
>>>> sites being used as marketing vehicles for specific commercial
>>>> offerings and products.     The guideline I got was:
>>>> --------------------
>>>> PMCs can choose to have "these companies support our product" pages if
>>>> they want.  But they have to be factual, non-advertisements; should be
>>>> in specific places on the project's site; and must not be exclusive
>>>> (i.e. any other reputable company needs to be able to request to add
>>>> links as well).
>>>> --------------------
>>>> Step one was just to copy the information and localize it all to a
>>>> specific page.     Step two is the "factual, non-advertisement" part.
>>>> Dan
>>>>> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 8:23 PM,<>  wrote:
>>>>>> Commercial CXF Offerings
>>>>>> Page added by Daniel Kulp
>>>>>> Commercial CXF Offerings
>>>>>> Apache CXF is a widely used project. As such several companies have
>>>>>> build products and services around CXF. This page is dedicated to
>>>>>> providing descriptions of those offerings. Companies are definitely
>>>>>> encouraged to update this page directly or send a mail to the CXF
>>>>>> with a description of your offerings and we can update the page.
>>>>>> products and services listed on this page are provided for
>>>>>> information use only to our users. The CXF PMC does not endorse or
>>>>>> recommend any of the products or services on this page.
>>>>>> FuseSource
>>>>>> FuseSource offers enterprise subscriptions that include Enterprise
>>>>>> Developer and Production Support on ActiveMQ, Camel, CXF and
>>>>>> ServiceMix - including Training, Consulting&  Mentoring. They
>>>>>> employ most of the core committers on the projects to ensure you
>>>>>> the best possible answers to all your support needs and your bugs
>>>>>> fixed fast.
>>>>>> MuleSoft
>>>>>> MuleSoft provides support for Apache CXF as a part of its Mule
>>>>>> enterprise subscription offering. Mule is a popular open source ESB
>>>>>> and integration platform, with support for SOAP web services, as
>>>>>> as REST, JMS, File and over 100+ additional transports.
>>>>>> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd
>>>>>> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd provides training and support for
>>>>>> CXF, along with training and support for web services security and
>>>>>> SOA based on CXF.
>>>>>> Talend
>>>>>> Talend provides enterprise level services and support for Apache
>>>>>> and their Talend Service Factory product which is a repackaging of
>>>>>> CXF including a full, pre-configured OSGi runtime container. Talend
>>>>>> also has a package of examples that demonstrate many of CXF's
>>>>>> advanced features including JAX-RS use cases, OSGi deployments,
>>>>>> Security, etc... Talend also employs the leading CXF committers that
>>>>>> are experts in all areas of CXF including JAX-RS, JAX-WS,
>>>>>> WS-Security, etc... to make sure any bugs and issues can be resolved
>>>>>> quickly and accurately.
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> -- 
> Daniel Kulp

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