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From Jeff Genender <>
Subject Re: [CONF] Apache CXF > Commercial CXF Offerings
Date Thu, 03 Feb 2011 16:11:11 GMT
ORLY?  For the record:

41% baby!!!


On Feb 3, 2011, at 9:07 AM, Hadrian Zbarcea wrote:

> I agree with Jeff. By stating 'a beer' and not stating the alcohol content, you knew
the readers will make wrong assumptions.
> This is strikingly similar to the marketing practices on the apache site.
> (For the record, the alcohol content was much lower than some wines, not mentioning vodka.)
> ;)
> Hadrian
> On Feb 3, 2011, at 10:46 AM, Jeff Genender wrote:
>> Well said, Dan.
>> And BTW... did you tell anyone the alcohol content of that beer? ;-)  Low blow man!
>> Jeff
>> On Feb 3, 2011, at 8:41 AM, Daniel Kulp wrote:
>>> On Wednesday 02 February 2011 10:28:50 pm Jeff Genender wrote:
>>>> -1... what is reputable?  Who decides who is "reputable"?  Am I reputable?
>>> Umm....  was that last question rhetorical?   Do you really want me to answer

>>> that?   Can you really trust someone who gets plastered on less than a single

>>> bottle of beer.......
>>> ;-)     
>>>> Apache is not about tooting your own horn.  Go back to your respective
>>>> company and have them purchase press releases and advertise on their
>>>> sites.  Apache is not a locale for horn tooting.
>>> Joking aside, that is the important thing to consider.  Apache projects are 
>>> supposed to be a level playing field for everyone involved.   One PMC member

>>> does not have any more say than another PMC member, etc....    Yes, in a lot

>>> of ways, "committed code rules over theoretical ideas", but in general, it 
>>> should be a level playing field.
>>> The other thing to keep in mind is the foundation IS a non-profit organization

>>> and MUST operate in a way the reflects that status and protects that status.
>>> There are legal ramifications of having anything from a non-profit to start 
>>> looking like a marketting vehicle for a for-profit organization.   The 
>>> trademarks (CXF is a trademark of the foundation) and such MUST be protected

>>> and it's our duty as PMC members to make sure the marks are not being abused

>>> or miss used.   
>>> Thus, it really is important to make sure, from a project perspective, that 
>>> the information on our site is purely informational, factually accurate, and

>>> have no appearance of favortism and such.    If the landing zones at Fuse and

>>> Talend and others want to toot their horn and promote their projects, that's

>>> great.   Please do so.   On the Apache projects sites, that's should not be 
>>> tollerated.
>>> I have to admit, this last 6 months or so have been quite educational for me

>>> about things like non-profit rules, trademark law, protection requirements, 
>>> etc...    Any of the Apache members or anyone on the Maven PMC knows more 
>>> about what I'm talking about, but it's definitely been interesting and 
>>> educational.   
>>> Dan
>>>> Jeff
>>>> On Feb 2, 2011, at 7:23 PM, Glen Mazza wrote:
>>>>> Unless it is blatant lies (i.e., non-reputable companies), I say let
>>>>> companies do a little bit of advertising on the Support page, even if
>>>>> they contradict each other or embellish a bit.  We want users to choose
>>>>> support, because it results in more hired people working on the
>>>>> projects.  Let the support page be the "toot your own horn" page and
>>>>> instead enforce non-advertising throughout the rest of the manual, where
>>>>> everything does need to be strictly factual.
>>>>> Keeping a loose leash on the Support page also helps minimize strife
>>>>> between teams.
>>>>> In Manhattan there might be 300 places to buy pizza, about 75 of which
>>>>> claim to be "New York's Best Pizza!"  That's just advertising, it
>>>>> doesn't need to be taken seriously.
>>>>> Glen
>>>>> On 02.02.2011 20:50, Daniel Kulp wrote:
>>>>>> Someone is paying attention... cool.  :-)
>>>>>> On Wednesday 02 February 2011 8:27:38 pm Benson Margulies wrote:
>>>>>>> Do we need to have these dueling claims for who employs how many
>>>>>>> committers / PMC members? Could we persuade both Talend and FUSE
>>>>>>> just say 'committers, get your red hot committers!'
>>>>>> I'm in the process of cleaning things up a bit.   I've been chatting
>>>>>> with various people on the trademark committee as well as others
>>>>>> one "concern" that has been expressed with some projects is project
>>>>>> sites being used as marketing vehicles for specific commercial
>>>>>> offerings and products.     The guideline I got was:
>>>>>> --------------------
>>>>>> PMCs can choose to have "these companies support our product" pages
>>>>>> they want.  But they have to be factual, non-advertisements; should
>>>>>> in specific places on the project's site; and must not be exclusive
>>>>>> (i.e. any other reputable company needs to be able to request to
>>>>>> links as well).
>>>>>> --------------------
>>>>>> Step one was just to copy the information and localize it all to
>>>>>> specific page.     Step two is the "factual, non-advertisement" part.
>>>>>> Dan
>>>>>>> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 8:23 PM,<>
>>>>>>>> Commercial CXF Offerings
>>>>>>>> Page added by Daniel Kulp
>>>>>>>> Commercial CXF Offerings
>>>>>>>> Apache CXF is a widely used project. As such several companies
>>>>>>>> build products and services around CXF. This page is dedicated
>>>>>>>> providing descriptions of those offerings. Companies are
>>>>>>>> encouraged to update this page directly or send a mail to
>>>>>>>> with a description of your offerings and we can update the
page. The
>>>>>>>> products and services listed on this page are provided for
>>>>>>>> information use only to our users. The CXF PMC does not endorse
>>>>>>>> recommend any of the products or services on this page.
>>>>>>>> FuseSource
>>>>>>>> FuseSource offers enterprise subscriptions that include Enterprise
>>>>>>>> Developer and Production Support on ActiveMQ, Camel, CXF
>>>>>>>> ServiceMix - including Training, Consulting&  Mentoring.
They also
>>>>>>>> employ most of the core committers on the projects to ensure
you get
>>>>>>>> the best possible answers to all your support needs and your
>>>>>>>> fixed fast.
>>>>>>>> MuleSoft
>>>>>>>> MuleSoft provides support for Apache CXF as a part of its
>>>>>>>> enterprise subscription offering. Mule is a popular open
source ESB
>>>>>>>> and integration platform, with support for SOAP web services,
as well
>>>>>>>> as REST, JMS, File and over 100+ additional transports.
>>>>>>>> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd
>>>>>>>> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd provides training and support
>>>>>>>> CXF, along with training and support for web services security
>>>>>>>> SOA based on CXF.
>>>>>>>> Talend
>>>>>>>> Talend provides enterprise level services and support for
Apache CXF
>>>>>>>> and their Talend Service Factory product which is a repackaging
>>>>>>>> CXF including a full, pre-configured OSGi runtime container.
>>>>>>>> also has a package of examples that demonstrate many of CXF's
>>>>>>>> advanced features including JAX-RS use cases, OSGi deployments,
>>>>>>>> Security, etc... Talend also employs the leading CXF committers
>>>>>>>> are experts in all areas of CXF including JAX-RS, JAX-WS,
>>>>>>>> WS-Security, etc... to make sure any bugs and issues can
be resolved
>>>>>>>> quickly and accurately.
>>>>>>>> Change Notification Preferences
>>>>>>>> View Online | Add Comment
>>> -- 
>>> Daniel Kulp

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