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From Daniel Kulp <>
Subject Re: [CONF] Apache CXF > Commercial CXF Offerings
Date Thu, 03 Feb 2011 15:41:36 GMT
On Wednesday 02 February 2011 10:28:50 pm Jeff Genender wrote:
> -1... what is reputable?  Who decides who is "reputable"?  Am I reputable?

Umm....  was that last question rhetorical?   Do you really want me to answer 
that?   Can you really trust someone who gets plastered on less than a single 
bottle of beer.......


> Apache is not about tooting your own horn.  Go back to your respective
> company and have them purchase press releases and advertise on their
> sites.  Apache is not a locale for horn tooting.

Joking aside, that is the important thing to consider.  Apache projects are 
supposed to be a level playing field for everyone involved.   One PMC member 
does not have any more say than another PMC member, etc....    Yes, in a lot 
of ways, "committed code rules over theoretical ideas", but in general, it 
should be a level playing field.

The other thing to keep in mind is the foundation IS a non-profit organization 
and MUST operate in a way the reflects that status and protects that status.   
There are legal ramifications of having anything from a non-profit to start 
looking like a marketting vehicle for a for-profit organization.   The 
trademarks (CXF is a trademark of the foundation) and such MUST be protected 
and it's our duty as PMC members to make sure the marks are not being abused 
or miss used.   

Thus, it really is important to make sure, from a project perspective, that 
the information on our site is purely informational, factually accurate, and 
have no appearance of favortism and such.    If the landing zones at Fuse and 
Talend and others want to toot their horn and promote their projects, that's 
great.   Please do so.   On the Apache projects sites, that's should not be 

I have to admit, this last 6 months or so have been quite educational for me 
about things like non-profit rules, trademark law, protection requirements, 
etc...    Any of the Apache members or anyone on the Maven PMC knows more 
about what I'm talking about, but it's definitely been interesting and 


> Jeff
> On Feb 2, 2011, at 7:23 PM, Glen Mazza wrote:
> > Unless it is blatant lies (i.e., non-reputable companies), I say let the
> > companies do a little bit of advertising on the Support page, even if
> > they contradict each other or embellish a bit.  We want users to choose
> > support, because it results in more hired people working on the
> > projects.  Let the support page be the "toot your own horn" page and
> > instead enforce non-advertising throughout the rest of the manual, where
> > everything does need to be strictly factual.
> > 
> > Keeping a loose leash on the Support page also helps minimize strife
> > between teams.
> > 
> > In Manhattan there might be 300 places to buy pizza, about 75 of which
> > claim to be "New York's Best Pizza!"  That's just advertising, it
> > doesn't need to be taken seriously.
> > 
> > Glen
> > 
> > On 02.02.2011 20:50, Daniel Kulp wrote:
> >> Someone is paying attention... cool.  :-)
> >> 
> >> On Wednesday 02 February 2011 8:27:38 pm Benson Margulies wrote:
> >>> Do we need to have these dueling claims for who employs how many
> >>> committers / PMC members? Could we persuade both Talend and FUSE to
> >>> just say 'committers, get your red hot committers!'
> >> 
> >> I'm in the process of cleaning things up a bit.   I've been chatting
> >> with various people on the trademark committee as well as others and
> >> one "concern" that has been expressed with some projects is project
> >> sites being used as marketing vehicles for specific commercial
> >> offerings and products.     The guideline I got was:
> >> 
> >> --------------------
> >> PMCs can choose to have "these companies support our product" pages if
> >> they want.  But they have to be factual, non-advertisements; should be
> >> in specific places on the project's site; and must not be exclusive
> >> (i.e. any other reputable company needs to be able to request to add
> >> links as well).
> >> --------------------
> >> 
> >> Step one was just to copy the information and localize it all to a
> >> specific page.     Step two is the "factual, non-advertisement" part.
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Dan
> >> 
> >>> On Wed, Feb 2, 2011 at 8:23 PM,<>  wrote:
> >>>> Commercial CXF Offerings
> >>>> 
> >>>> Page added by Daniel Kulp
> >>>> 
> >>>> Commercial CXF Offerings
> >>>> 
> >>>> Apache CXF is a widely used project. As such several companies have
> >>>> build products and services around CXF. This page is dedicated to
> >>>> providing descriptions of those offerings. Companies are definitely
> >>>> encouraged to update this page directly or send a mail to the CXF PMC
> >>>> with a description of your offerings and we can update the page. The
> >>>> products and services listed on this page are provided for
> >>>> information use only to our users. The CXF PMC does not endorse or
> >>>> recommend any of the products or services on this page.
> >>>> 
> >>>> FuseSource
> >>>> 
> >>>> FuseSource offers enterprise subscriptions that include Enterprise
> >>>> Developer and Production Support on ActiveMQ, Camel, CXF and
> >>>> ServiceMix - including Training, Consulting&  Mentoring. They also
> >>>> employ most of the core committers on the projects to ensure you get
> >>>> the best possible answers to all your support needs and your bugs
> >>>> fixed fast.
> >>>> 
> >>>> MuleSoft
> >>>> 
> >>>> MuleSoft provides support for Apache CXF as a part of its Mule
> >>>> enterprise subscription offering. Mule is a popular open source ESB
> >>>> and integration platform, with support for SOAP web services, as well
> >>>> as REST, JMS, File and over 100+ additional transports.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd
> >>>> 
> >>>> Sosnoski Software Associates Ltd provides training and support for
> >>>> CXF, along with training and support for web services security and
> >>>> SOA based on CXF.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Talend
> >>>> 
> >>>> Talend provides enterprise level services and support for Apache CXF
> >>>> and their Talend Service Factory product which is a repackaging of
> >>>> CXF including a full, pre-configured OSGi runtime container. Talend
> >>>> also has a package of examples that demonstrate many of CXF's
> >>>> advanced features including JAX-RS use cases, OSGi deployments,
> >>>> Security, etc... Talend also employs the leading CXF committers that
> >>>> are experts in all areas of CXF including JAX-RS, JAX-WS,
> >>>> WS-Security, etc... to make sure any bugs and issues can be resolved
> >>>> quickly and accurately.
> >>>> 
> >>>> Change Notification Preferences
> >>>> View Online | Add Comment

Daniel Kulp

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