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From Jeff Genender <jgenen...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Latest IBM DeveloperWorks article
Date Wed, 08 Dec 2010 23:49:00 GMT
Andreas,

Honestly... its not misleading... this discussion really should be taken offline and go direct.
 There are people who like WAS and people who absolutely hate it.  It can be argued all day
about the merits of WAS and how great or sucky it is.... but probably not here.  Just my .02.
 I would encourage you guys to have an email chat privately to work this out as this is really
becoming a religious discussion more than the merits of the article.

Jeff

On Dec 8, 2010, at 4:45 PM, Andreas Veithen wrote:

> The discussion has actually nothing to do with either CXF or Axis2
> (nor with Dennis' article). I just hate it when people make misleading
> statements.
> 
> Andreas
> 
> On Thu, Dec 9, 2010 at 00:35, Glen Mazza <glen.mazza@gmail.com> wrote:
>> AS WAS 6.1 is built on Axis2, perhaps this thread would be better moved to
>> the Axis2 Dev list.
>> 
>> Glen
>> 
>> On 12/08/2010 06:29 PM, Andreas Veithen wrote:
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 22:58, Craig Tataryn<craiger@tataryn.net>  wrote:
>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 2010-12-08, at 3:33 PM, Andreas Veithen wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Looks like you made the same mistake that I've seen elsewhere: instead
>>>>> of just installing the Web services feature pack on WAS 6.1 (to get
>>>>> JAX-WS support) and let the IBM support take care of the issues (after
>>>>> all that is what they are payed for), you spent your time trying to
>>>>> integrate another SOAP stack and solve the issues yourself. That being
>>>>> said, I don't know if the feature pack already existed when you did
>>>>> your project, and of course for a contractor that is the more
>>>>> interesting option (I would do the same in that position ;-). But OK,
>>>>> let's not transform this thread into a discussion about how to deploy
>>>>> Web services on WAS...
>>>>> 
>>>>> Andreas
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> I might have confused the article with another? I still stand by my
>>>> statements.  I don't want to use "Webservices Pack for WAS".  I want to use
>>>> "works regardless of servlet container and support contract".  So it was
not
>>>> a "mistake", I fully intended to avoid the Webservices Pack.
>>>> 
>>>> Craig.
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> This is again a misleading statement. WAS 6.1 is a J2EE 1.4 compliant
>>> application server and the feature pack adds support for some parts of
>>> JEE5 (in the same way as they have a feature pack to upgrade from EJB
>>> 2.1 to 3.0). It doesn't tie you to a particular vendor (in contrast to
>>> what they had in WebSphere 5). So, "works regardless of servlet
>>> container" would really mean "doesn't use JEE5". There are indeed some
>>> arguments in favor of not using JEE5, including the quality of the
>>> implementation in a particular application server or the fact that for
>>> some projects, it doesn't provide enough flexibility.
>>> 
>>> Andreas
>>> 
>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 21:26, Craig Tataryn<craiger@tataryn.net>
 wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> We were using WAS 6.1 and we needed to support HL7 payloads.  Axis
>>>>>> wasn't up to snuff. Then trying to get modern versions of JAXB and
XML APIs
>>>>>> to work with WAS wasted soooooo much time and money. It was also
a main
>>>>>> contributor to my hair greying at the tender age of 34.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> </rant>
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Craig.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 2010-12-08, at 2:15 PM, Dennis Sosnoski wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 12/09/2010 08:53 AM, Andreas Veithen wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 14:40, Craig Tataryn<craiger@tataryn.net>
>>>>>>>>  wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> That's great, his last article was very helpful at my
last contract
>>>>>>>>> in saving me from implementing using "Web Services Pack
for WAS" (aka Axis)
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Interesting statement. Dennis' last articles were all about
>>>>>>>> comparison
>>>>>>>> between CXF, Rampart and Metro. However, although IBM uses
Axis2 as
>>>>>>>> the basis for their JAX-WS support in WAS 7.0 and in the
Web services
>>>>>>>> feature pack for WAS 6.1, they're not using Rampart at all,
but have
>>>>>>>> their own WS-Security implementation...
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I haven't worked with WAS myself, but thought that might be the
case.
>>>>>>> That's why I qualify my own rankings of the stacks in the latest
>>>>>>> article
>>>>>>> with " Also, the rankings apply only to the base open source
projects;
>>>>>>> commercial stacks based on the open source versions may use their
own
>>>>>>> security code and other extensions. You'll need to look at the
>>>>>>> differences between the commercial code and the open source base
to
>>>>>>> see
>>>>>>> which parts of the rankings may apply."
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Andreas, why don't you add a comment to the article pointing
out that
>>>>>>> the rankings don't apply to WAS for this reason?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>  - Dennis
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 


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