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From "Bharath Ganesh" <bharathgan...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Concerns about the Camel / CXF documentation
Date Thu, 28 Aug 2008 12:44:22 GMT
I can work on this. Let me get started by setting up the CXF JMS transport
and play a bit with it.

On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 6:04 PM, Eoghan Glynn <eoghan.glynn@iona.com> wrote:

>
> -1 to decommissioning the CXF JMS transport.
>
> If there are perceived shortcomings in the CXF JMS transport config, lets
> identify these issues, raise corresponding JIRAs, and get them fixed.
>
> /Eoghan
>
>
> Benson Margulies wrote:
>
>> My question is dumber. If Camel, a part of Apache, is a superior
>> comestible for this purpose, should we consider decommissioning or
>> deprecating the existing CXF JMS in favor of just using it?
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 28, 2008 at 6:15 AM, Christian Schneider
>> <chris@die-schneider.net> wrote:
>>
>>> Glen Mazza schrieb:
>>>
>>>> Christian,
>>>>
>>>> I have a few concerns about your write up on using Camel as a JMS
>>>> alternative with CXF[1]:
>>>>
>>>> 1.)  I don't understand why you are duplicating your blog entry on a CXF
>>>> confluence page.  Can't you just keep your blog entry up-to-date with
>>>> your
>>>> link to it from our articles[2] page (and perhaps a few sentences on our
>>>> JMS
>>>> page linking to it, for those who miss the articles page)?  Your article
>>>> looks nicer on your blog anyway than it does with Confluence formatting.
>>>>
>>>>  Hi Glen,
>>>
>>> I also use confluence on my blog. So the duplication effort is at least
>>> quite small. The reason why I duplicated the content is that I on the one
>>> hand wanted
>>> to really contribute the article to cxf so anyone on the wiki can improve
>>> it
>>> later. On the other hand I wanted to establish my blog. If I only wrote
>>> the
>>> article on my
>>> blog no one would be able to do modifications beside myself. If I only
>>> had
>>> written the article on the Wiki I could not establish my blog. Shame on
>>> me
>>> for using CXF for this ;-) I can cut the link if you think it is
>>> inadequate.
>>>
>>> Btw. if the article looks nicer on my blog we could perhaps improve the
>>> design of the cxf confluence pages ;-)
>>>
>>>> 2.)  The quality of the writing on the Confluence page is not very
>>>> clean--it
>>>> hasn't been spell-checked, capitalization is frequently off ("apache
>>>> camel"
>>>> instead of "Apache Camel"), detracting from the CXF documentation as a
>>>> whole, and the tone reads too informally.  Also, you have too many
>>>> references to specific developers and regular usage of the first-person
>>>> "I"--it is written like a blog entry instead of actual system
>>>> documentation. We really don't have time to be cleaning this
>>>> documentation
>>>> up, you need to
>>>> proofread more carefully.
>>>>
>>>>  That´s why I started the article on my blog and announced it on the
>>> mailing
>>> list. I hoped that some of these problems would be found before I added
>>> the
>>> article to the wiki.
>>> But I got no response on the list so I added the article a day later. I
>>> will
>>> try to improve the style and naming schemes today if that is ok.
>>>
>>>> I write blog entries and link them to the articles page, and I also
>>>> update
>>>> the CXF system documentation (sometimes linking to a blog entry, either
>>>> mine
>>>> or others).  But the writing styles are different, and the types of
>>>> things
>>>> you include are different.  In particular, you are tying your Confluence
>>>> article too much to yourself, but Confluence pages are for any team
>>>> member
>>>> to edit, and are normally written without reference to any particular
>>>> author.
>>>>
>>>>  Thanks for the hints about the style. I will try to do this better in
>>> the
>>> future. Perhaps it is a good idea to
>>> write a howto on the project page in a neutral style. Then I could pack
>>> an
>>> announcement to the howto together with my personal opinions on my blog
>>> in a
>>> personal style. So the two
>>> would be separated nicely. I think I still have to learn a bit aboutt
>>> blogging ;-)
>>>
>>>> 3.)  The tone of the documentation would appear to make it a better
>>>> candidate on the Camel site rather than the CXF one, for two reasons.
>>>>  (And
>>>> I'm sure James Strachan would be happy to give you a place to write
>>>> articles.)  For one thing, the criticisms of the CXF product, as in your
>>>> entry paragraphs, is unnatural within CXF documentation.
>>>>
>>>>  You are right. I think it would be better to add the Howto to the Camel
>>> site
>>> and link it from CXF Howtos. I can move the article.
>>> The problem with the current Camel site is that you almost do not find
>>> the
>>> Camel CXF Transport although it is
>>> the better solution than the CXF component. For me the main idea behind
>>> publishing this article was that I had many problems configuring
>>> JMS for CXF and that the Camel integration really helped. So I hope to
>>> help
>>> others with configuring JMS. If I would only add the article to the Camel
>>> Wiki
>>> the CXF users who do not need Camel but have problems with JMS would not
>>> find it.
>>>
>>> As a second intention I would like to help improve the CXF JMS config and
>>> hope that the style Camel uses can be a good pattern for an improved
>>> native
>>> JMS
>>> config for CXF.
>>>
>>>> Quote:  "Configuring JMS in Apache CXF is possible but not really easy
>>>> or
>>>> nice. This article shows how to use Apache Camel to provide a better JMS
>>>> Transport for CXF...JMS configuration in Apache CXF is possible but the
>>>> configuration is not very flexible and quite error prone. In CXF you
>>>> have
>>>> to
>>>> configure a JMSConduit or a JMSDestination for each webservice. The
>>>> connection between Conduit and the Service proxy is the endpoint name
>>>> which
>>>> looks like "{http://service.test\}HelloWorldPort.jms-conduit". As this
>>>> name
>>>> is never explicitly configured elsewhere it is quite probable that you
>>>> misspell the name. If this happens then the JMS Transport just does not
>>>> work. There is no good error reporting to show you what you did wrong."
>>>>
>>>> Pointing out the minuses of a software product, such as CXF, is
>>>> perfectly
>>>> acceptable, but not on the CXF's product's page itself--this should with
>>>> the
>>>> Camel project, where you are explaining an alternative.  That's where
>>>> you
>>>> establish the contrast, the criticisms that you're finding with CXF.
>>>>  While
>>>> you can still link to alternative and better solutions from the CXF site
>>>> (and even say they're better), the self-criticism part directly within
>>>> the
>>>> system documentation seems strange.
>>>>
>>>>  As mentioned above I hope to help people with JMS problems in the short
>>> run
>>> and help improve CXF JMS
>>> in the long run. Sorry if this criticism is too harsh. Perhaps it suites
>>> better when I place the article on the Camel wiki.
>>> I can also try to be a little less harsh in the criticism. The only
>>> reason
>>> why I wrote this passage anyway was to motivate
>>> why you should use a separate product to configure CXF JMS. My intention
>>> is
>>> in no way to move people to Camel or something.
>>> I only hope to help the users of CXF and improve CXF.
>>>
>>>  For example, if I want to suggest where Maven is better than Apache Ant
>>>> for
>>>> building software, those technical articles (and legitimate criticisms)
>>>> go
>>>> on the Maven website ("Apache Ant is good for many things, but falls
>>>> short
>>>> in these project-building aspects...), not on the Ant website.  It is
>>>> unusual to ask team members to maintain documentation criticizing their
>>>> project.  For the second reason, Camel embeds CXF--not vice-versa; for
>>>> that reason,
>>>> perhaps placement on the Camel site would appear more appropriate, with
>>>> just
>>>> links from CXF.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  I understand. So moving the article to Camel is a good idea. Is it ok
>>> to
>>> link to the Camel article from the Wiki though?
>>>
>>> Btw. What do you think about improving the JMS config for CXF? Would you
>>> think the style from Camel I showed is good? I really like
>>> the idea to choose the JMS connection in the address rather than in a
>>> separate conduit definition. I also think it´s great to use Spring
>>> internally to
>>> make use of their transaction management. The last thing I liked is
>>> refrencing the ConnectionFactory as a bean.
>>>
>>> Best regards
>>>
>>> Christian
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Christian Schneider
>>> ---
>>> http://www.liquid-reality.de
>>>
>>>
>>>
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