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From Jim Jagielski <>
Subject Re: IRC
Date Mon, 14 Aug 2006 15:47:42 GMT

On Aug 14, 2006, at 10:07 AM, Jason van Zyl wrote:

> On 14 Aug 06, at 9:33 AM 14 Aug 06, Jim Jagielski wrote:
>> A reminder that by its very nature, IRC is exclusionary and
>> contrary to ASF principles.
> Not communicating with the team as a whole about what has been  
> discussed is contrary to ASF principles.

I'm sure you're not saying that something like "Hey, we
discussed Foo on IRC and have decided to do it, so we
thought we'd let the dev@ list know about it now" is

IRC has its use, and is good when some things need to
be resolved real-time. But it is NOT a good method of
ensuring a communal development environment, due to
the simple fact that unless one happens to be on
IRC at that exact moment of time, one "misses out"
on the discussion. I won't even address the non-archival
aspect of IRC.

> We had a general discussion about IRC on the incubator list and I  
> think it can be used effectively without compromising the integrity  
> of the project. I think the policy is that IRC can't be used to  
> make decisions which is perfectly reasonable.
>> Long-standing ASF projects have
>> a hard time using it effectively and without sacrificing
>> the communal nature of development crucial to the
>> ASF; an Incubator podling will have a MUCH more
>> difficult time.
> I would disagree that IRC is inherently exclusionary

If there are 20 developers and 19 are located on the
US West Coast and 1 is located in Sri Lanka (or Australia)
or someplace else, then it follows that "most" IRC discussions
would be held during a convenient time for the 19 and
at a non-convenient time for the 1. Even more so when
it's like "Hey, let's all get together on IRC now and
hash this out!".

And I did not say that no projects use it, but rather
they have a hard time using it effectively, which is
what I stand by.

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