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From Daniel Kulp <daniel.k...@iona.com>
Subject Re: Wiki and Web
Date Wed, 30 Aug 2006 20:04:29 GMT


Speeking of confluence:

Currently, only people in the cxf-developers group can create/edit/delete 
pages on the confluence wiki.  Should we also create a cxf-users group for 
people that would allow basic editing, etc...?      Maybe 
allow "confluence-users" to edit?   To me, a wiki should be more open.   
Maybe restrict certain pages, but mostly make it easy to contribute.  (since 
wiki's really don't have a "patch" capability so sending in patches isn't 
really doable)

Dan



On Wednesday August 30 2006 1:49 pm, Johnson, Eric wrote:
> Dan,
> I've been thinking about the web site thing a bit more and still don't
> think Confluence is the way to go for the front page. Here are a few of
> my concerns:
> * While Confluence does make editing the content easy it is also pretty
> limited in its layout capabilities.
>  * If our Wiki and our web site look the same, what is the point of
> having both?
> * Since the Confluence instance we are using is not specific to our
> project, how much control over look and feel do we have over the
> resulting output?
> * Can Confluence make use of CSS and Javascript?
> Mostly, I'm concerned that using Confluence does not provide a good base
> for creating a really professional looking web presence.
> The approach I'd prefer is to use straight HTML to build the main page
> and perhaps some of the other pages. From that base we can add links to
> the Confluence instance and other content.
> I understand that this means checking the HTML back into SVN, but that
> really is not that big an issue in my opinion. It provides a good way
> for the whole community an opportunity to see what is being added to the
> page before it gets pushed out to the Apache web server.
> Cheers,
> Eric
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Dan Diephouse [mailto:dan@envoisolutions.com]
> > Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 4:40 PM
> > To: cxf-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > Subject: Re: Wiki and Web
> >
> > Johnson, Eric wrote:
> > > Dan,
> > > I agree that most of the Celtix stuff is probably irrelevant to
> > > CeltiXfire, but figured we needed to start somewhere...
> > > I can certainly put something simple together that has a project
> > > description and associated information. It will probably be easier
>
> for
>
> > > me, initially at least, to put this together using straight HTML.
>
> I'm
>
> > > sure confluence is easy to use, but I've never actually done it.
> >
> > Its very simple, just go to a page and click Edit :-)
> >
> > > For site generation I'm not sure Forrest is actually the best way to
>
> go
>
> > > either. I just put the Celtix info together as an experiment. I'm
>
> not
>
> > > sure I like using the Confluence to build the main site either
>
> though.
>
> > > Is there a way to lock down who can edit the content?
> >
> > Yes, only people who we give permission to can edit it.
> >
> > > Does this mean that the wiki and the Web site are the same?
> >
> > In essence yes. But the wiki gets exported to SVN. Here is an example:
> >
> > The published site: http://incubator.apache.org/activemq/
> > Confluence: http://goopen.org/confluence/display/ACTIVEMQ/Home
> >
> > > I suppose what I'm getting at is that I like the idea of having a
>
> wiki
>
> > > that people can edit as a tech/dev zone sort of thing, but not as
>
> the
>
> > > entry to the project. I like the idea of a static site that is
>
> reviewed
>
> > > before being published as the front of the Web site. I think the
>
> front
>
> > > page of the Web site should be a static HTML page that is stored
> > > separately from the wiki. From that page we can link into
>
> Confluence,
>
> > > Maven derived stuff, or Docbook derived stuff. That way the front
>
> page
>
> > > is more tightly locked down and can present the best face for the
> > > project.
> >
> > We have a lot of control over who we allow to do edit things, so I
>
> guess
>
> > I don't think it will be that big of an issue. I think the benefits of
> > not having the edit/generate/publish cycle outweigh the reviewing.
> >
> > Are people going to go defacing the front page? I don't really think
>
> so.
>
> > Its the same principle as the wikipedia. The ease of edit outweighs
>
> the
>
> > dangers of someone doing something on a page.  All of us have SVN
> > logs/RSS feeds for the wiki. I watch the changes to the XFire wiki
>
> quite
>
> > religously, and will continue to do so for CXF.
> >
> > > It can be just straight HTML and thus avoid the generate->publish
>
> step.
>
> > You still need to commit them to svn. With Confluence we can hook it
>
> up
>
> > so its just an Edit -> Save.
> >
> > > As for the docs, I think we need to have them in a format that
>
> allows
>
> > > other projects to easily consume them and work with them as they
>
> want.
>
> > > Keeping them in Docbook allows others to take the docs and build
>
> them
>
> > > into their own doc set if they like.
> >
> > Yes and no. I assume you're talking about how IONA may want to embed
>
> the
>
> > documentation in its products? Wouldn't this only really be a major
> > issue on things like the users manual? This was why I was mentioning
> > that we might want to have a hybrid approach.
> >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Eric
> > >
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: Dan Diephouse [mailto:dan@envoisolutions.com]
> > >> Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 2:58 PM
> > >> To: cxf-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > >> Subject: Re: Wiki and Web
> > >>
> > >> Hi Eric,
> > >> I'm not sure that all the old Celtix content will be all that
> > >
> > > relevant.
> > >
> > >> Probably the tooling stuff will, but I'm looking through the rest
>
> of
>
> > > the
> > >
> > >> celtix website and it doesn't seem like much of it should come
> > >
> > > wholesale
> > >
> > >> to Apache.
> > >>
> > >> How about we get a simple website with the mailing list, source
> > >> repository, and project description up. I think it would be easiest
>
> to
>
> > >> just use confluence for this stage and have the html sync/export
> > >
> > > dumped
> > >
> > >> to the svn repository for our website. If people are really keen on
> > >> using forest, thats fine, but I find Confluence+Export removes the
> > >
> > > extra
> > >
> > >> generation + publish steps.
> > >>
> > >> Concurrently, lets figure out what our requirements are for
> > >> documentation. I'm not a huge fan of the write, generate, publish
> > >> approach. I find the the wiki approach much faster as you get an
> > >
> > > instant
> > >
> > >> look at what your docs look like and there is no delay in
>
> publishing.
>
> > > I
> > >
> > >> understand we may want to have stuff checked over before being
> > >
> > > instantly
> > >
> > >> published though, so maybe we can do a hybrid approach with the
>
> manual
>
> > >> as a forest/xdoc/docbook type of thing and the rest of the site
>
> backed
>
> > >> by a wiki.
> > >>
> > >> Regards,
> > >>
> > >> - Dan
> > >>
> > >> Johnson, Eric wrote:
> > >>> I have a Forrest based site ready that contains most of the
>
> content
>
> > >>> ported from the old Celtix site. It could easily be deployed and
> > >
> > > updated
> > >
> > >>> to include any Xfire content.
> > >>>
> > >>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>> From: Dan Diephouse [mailto:dan@envoisolutions.com]
> > >>>> Sent: Friday, August 18, 2006 3:24 PM
> > >>>> To: cxf-dev@incubator.apache.org
> > >>>> Subject: Re: Wiki and Web
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Jason van Zyl wrote:
> > >>>>> On 18 Aug 06, at 1:11 PM 18 Aug 06, Johnson, Eric wrote:
> > >>>>>> Have we decided on a Wiki to use?
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I setup Confluence:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> http://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/CXF
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> We can use it or something else but that's there for perusal.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I'm deifnitely for using Confluence. It kicks the pants off Moin
> > >
> > > Moin.
> > >
> > >>>>>> What are we going to do about getting a web presence for
> > >>>>
> > >>>> the project?
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> We can either create a Maven site, use the autoexport plugin
for
> > >>>>> Confluence to turn wiki pages into a static site, or use
> > >>>>
> > >>>> something else.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Maybe a good first step would be to hook in the autoexport
> > >>>> plugin for Confluence while we investigate our needs for
> > >>>> documentation? This would allow us to get a site up quickly.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> - Dan
> > >>>>
> > >>>> --
> > >>>> Dan Diephouse
> > >>>> Envoi Solutions
> > >>>> http://envoisolutions.com
> > >>>> http://netzooid.com/blog
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> Dan Diephouse
> > >> Envoi Solutions
> > >> http://envoisolutions.com
> > >> http://netzooid.com/blog
> >
> > --
> > Dan Diephouse
> > Envoi Solutions
> > http://envoisolutions.com
> > http://netzooid.com/blog

-- 
J. Daniel Kulp
Principal Engineer
IONA
P: 781-902-8727    C: 508-380-7194   F:781-902-8001
daniel.kulp@iona.com

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