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From Martin Broerse <i...@martinbroerse.com>
Subject Re: Whither CouchApps (Was: views failing due to fabric_worker_timeout and OS process timed out)
Date Mon, 27 Feb 2017 10:23:35 GMT
Hi Jan,

By `the hosting feature` I mean the rewrite rules and the vhost. Good to
hear that is not going away.

- Martin


On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 11:04 AM, Jan Lehnardt <jan@apache.org> wrote:

> Not sure what you mean with `the hosing feature`, but attachments are not
> going away.
>
> FWIW, I’d be in favour of having a modern CouchApp platform hooked into
> CouchDB, but in the past 5 years we haven’t found anyone who’d be willing
> to put in the work.
>
> Best
> Jan
> --
>
> > On 27 Feb 2017, at 10:58, Martin Broerse <info@martinbroerse.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Jan,
> >
> > If we split thinking about CouchApp in the hosting part and the backend
> > coding part it would not hurt our usage if we lose the coding part. The
> > coding part we need on the backend like password resetmails and other
> > scheduled tasks are not there so the coding part needs to be more
> powerful
> > before we can use it. We can solve this tasks with OpenWhisk so perhaps
> > keep the hosting feature and lose the rest?
> >
> > The Ember guys at LinkedIn found it is faster to eval javascript loaded
> as
> > strings than loading the javascript from the backend. We have not tested
> > this yet but if this is true we can perhaps bootstrap javascript apps
> from
> > strings hosted in CouchDB but we still need the CouchDB hosting part for
> > the bootstrap code.
> >
> > So in the future we are for keeping the hosting and lose the rest.
> >
> > - Martin
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 27, 2017 at 9:18 AM, Jan Lehnardt <jan@apache.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Martin,
> >>
> >> thanks for your comment.
> >>
> >>> On 27 Feb 2017, at 07:52, Martin Broerse <info@martinbroerse.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> We use the hosting from couchapp for many projects via
> >>> https://www.npmjs.com/package/ember-cli-deploy-couchdb so keep it in
> >>> couchdb. To replace excel sheets in businesses it is super you don't
> >> need a
> >>> separate hosting stack. An example couchapp hosted only on Cloudant:
> >>> https://bloggr.exmer.com
> >>
> >> Existing versions of CouchDB that support CouchApps aren’t going away,
> >> and I’m sure Cloudant will keep things around for a while, too.
> >>
> >> This is about the future of CouchDB and the non-existent developer
> >> time that is required to maintain these features as CouchDB evolves.
> >>
> >> Best
> >> Jan
> >> --
> >>
> >>
> >>>
> >>> - Martin
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 6:40 PM, Jan Lehnardt <jan@apache.org> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Aurélien,
> >>>>
> >>>> I see that at least at some point you were subscribed and
> participating
> >> on
> >>>> the couchapp@couchdb.apache.org mailing list. From the stated goal of
> >> the
> >>>> list (find a new technical foundation for CouchApp) and the lack of
> >>>> significant engagement (users and devs alike) there, it should have
> been
> >>>> clear where this is headed.
> >>>>
> >>>> And just to reiterate:
> >>>>
> >>>> 1. CouchApp was an attempt to revolutionise web development as we know
> >> it.
> >>>> — It failed, in like 2011.
> >>>>
> >>>> 2. It was designed in a world before Node.js. Most folks who want to
> do
> >>>> JavaScript and CouchDB have moved on.
> >>>>
> >>>> 3. There are SEVERE technical limitations, most of which aren’t as
bad
> >> as
> >>>> a view index generator, but VERY bad for anything OLTP (think CGI from
> >> 90s).
> >>>>
> >>>> 4. The features are unmaintained at this point, future refactorings
> >> might
> >>>> make the unavailable (e.g. in a http layer rewrite). The last
> >> significant
> >>>> work on the relevant code is 5-6 years in the past.
> >>>>
> >>>> 5.We invited the CouchApp community to step up and build a
> future-ready
> >>>> version of CouchApps, complete with a design direction and own mailing
> >>>> list.. Nobody stepped up, and at the end of the day, a project goes
> >> where
> >>>> developers can spend time.
> >>>>
> >>>> 6. and to be clear, we are talking about: 1. _show & _list 2. _update
> >>>> funs, 3. rewrites // for the time being, we’ll keep
> validate_doc_update
> >> and
> >>>> filter functions, but plan to replace them with per-doc access control
> >> and
> >>>> Mango schema enforcement. The idea of design docs, or attachments on
> >>>> documents are not going away.
> >>>>
> >>>> In terms of ease of building web apps: a Node.js process running next
> to
> >>>> CouchDB is only minimally more setup hassle and gives you:
> >>>>
> >>>> 1. The same baseline features, plus a lot more.
> >>>> 2. A simple app building model.
> >>>> 3. A RICH ecosystem of third party libraries.
> >>>> 4. WAAAAAAAY better performance and scalability.
> >>>> 5. A future for you to do just the things you are already doing
> without
> >>>> moving to another platform.
> >>>>
> >>>> Best
> >>>> Jan
> >>>> --
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 25 Feb 2017, at 18:22, Aurélien Bénel <aurelien.benel@utt.fr>
> >> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi Joan,
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Your email is aggressive, and your apology is not accepted.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I didn’t want it to be. I beg you for your pardon then.
> >>>>> My frustration was real, but I can assure you that I am not an
> >>>> aggressive person.
> >>>>> There would not have been any ambiguity in my mother language :
> >>>>> discussing technologies in a foreign language is one thing,
> expressing
> >>>> your feelings is another.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> This topic has been discussed to death on the mailing lists
and I am
> >>>> not going to be pulled into a retread of this argument.
> >>>>>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/couchdb-dev/
> >>>> 201702.mbox/%3CB6DB98EC-42B1-4960-9E43-257F040238F1%40apache.org%3E
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I’m just a « user »… a very dedicated and passionated user
(I’m in
> the
> >>>> top 10% on StackOverflow about CouchDB and I taught CouchDB to more
> than
> >>>> 150 french software engineers), but a user. That’s why I never
> >> subscribed
> >>>> to the « dev »  mailing list (or for a very short period of time).
I
> now
> >>>> understand that I should have, but it’s too late.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> My frustration is as high as has been my passion for six years for
> this
> >>>> incredibly interesting project.
> >>>>> I respect the board decisions but now I will have a hard time finding
> >>>> money (which is sparse in academic research) to move all of our
> >> software to
> >>>> a different technology stack and arguments to explain to all of my
> >>>> collaborators that I bet on a technology stack that got rapidly
> >> deprecated.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thank you for your understanding.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Best regards,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Aurélien
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Professional Support for Apache CouchDB:
> >>>> https://neighbourhood.ie/couchdb-support/
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Professional Support for Apache CouchDB:
> >> https://neighbourhood.ie/couchdb-support/
> >>
> >>
>
> --
> Professional Support for Apache CouchDB:
> https://neighbourhood.ie/couchdb-support/
>
>

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