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From Jan Lehnardt <...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Whither CouchApps (Was: views failing due to fabric_worker_timeout and OS process timed out)
Date Mon, 27 Feb 2017 08:18:38 GMT
Hi Martin,

thanks for your comment.

> On 27 Feb 2017, at 07:52, Martin Broerse <info@martinbroerse.com> wrote:
> 
> We use the hosting from couchapp for many projects via
> https://www.npmjs.com/package/ember-cli-deploy-couchdb so keep it in
> couchdb. To replace excel sheets in businesses it is super you don't need a
> separate hosting stack. An example couchapp hosted only on Cloudant:
> https://bloggr.exmer.com

Existing versions of CouchDB that support CouchApps aren’t going away,
and I’m sure Cloudant will keep things around for a while, too.

This is about the future of CouchDB and the non-existent developer
time that is required to maintain these features as CouchDB evolves.

Best
Jan
--


> 
> - Martin
> 
> On Sun, Feb 26, 2017 at 6:40 PM, Jan Lehnardt <jan@apache.org> wrote:
> 
>> Aurélien,
>> 
>> I see that at least at some point you were subscribed and participating on
>> the couchapp@couchdb.apache.org mailing list. From the stated goal of the
>> list (find a new technical foundation for CouchApp) and the lack of
>> significant engagement (users and devs alike) there, it should have been
>> clear where this is headed.
>> 
>> And just to reiterate:
>> 
>> 1. CouchApp was an attempt to revolutionise web development as we know it.
>> — It failed, in like 2011.
>> 
>> 2. It was designed in a world before Node.js. Most folks who want to do
>> JavaScript and CouchDB have moved on.
>> 
>> 3. There are SEVERE technical limitations, most of which aren’t as bad as
>> a view index generator, but VERY bad for anything OLTP (think CGI from 90s).
>> 
>> 4. The features are unmaintained at this point, future refactorings might
>> make the unavailable (e.g. in a http layer rewrite). The last significant
>> work on the relevant code is 5-6 years in the past.
>> 
>> 5.We invited the CouchApp community to step up and build a future-ready
>> version of CouchApps, complete with a design direction and own mailing
>> list.. Nobody stepped up, and at the end of the day, a project goes where
>> developers can spend time.
>> 
>> 6. and to be clear, we are talking about: 1. _show & _list 2. _update
>> funs, 3. rewrites // for the time being, we’ll keep validate_doc_update and
>> filter functions, but plan to replace them with per-doc access control and
>> Mango schema enforcement. The idea of design docs, or attachments on
>> documents are not going away.
>> 
>> In terms of ease of building web apps: a Node.js process running next to
>> CouchDB is only minimally more setup hassle and gives you:
>> 
>> 1. The same baseline features, plus a lot more.
>> 2. A simple app building model.
>> 3. A RICH ecosystem of third party libraries.
>> 4. WAAAAAAAY better performance and scalability.
>> 5. A future for you to do just the things you are already doing without
>> moving to another platform.
>> 
>> Best
>> Jan
>> --
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 25 Feb 2017, at 18:22, Aurélien Bénel <aurelien.benel@utt.fr> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Hi Joan,
>>> 
>>>> Your email is aggressive, and your apology is not accepted.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I didn’t want it to be. I beg you for your pardon then.
>>> My frustration was real, but I can assure you that I am not an
>> aggressive person.
>>> There would not have been any ambiguity in my mother language :
>>> discussing technologies in a foreign language is one thing, expressing
>> your feelings is another.
>>> 
>>>> This topic has been discussed to death on the mailing lists and I am
>> not going to be pulled into a retread of this argument.
>>>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/couchdb-dev/
>> 201702.mbox/%3CB6DB98EC-42B1-4960-9E43-257F040238F1%40apache.org%3E
>>> 
>>> I’m just a « user »… a very dedicated and passionated user (I’m in the
>> top 10% on StackOverflow about CouchDB and I taught CouchDB to more than
>> 150 french software engineers), but a user. That’s why I never subscribed
>> to the « dev »  mailing list (or for a very short period of time). I now
>> understand that I should have, but it’s too late.
>>> 
>>> My frustration is as high as has been my passion for six years for this
>> incredibly interesting project.
>>> I respect the board decisions but now I will have a hard time finding
>> money (which is sparse in academic research) to move all of our software to
>> a different technology stack and arguments to explain to all of my
>> collaborators that I bet on a technology stack that got rapidly deprecated.
>>> 
>>> Thank you for your understanding.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Best regards,
>>> 
>>> Aurélien
>> 
>> --
>> Professional Support for Apache CouchDB:
>> https://neighbourhood.ie/couchdb-support/
>> 
>> 

-- 
Professional Support for Apache CouchDB:
https://neighbourhood.ie/couchdb-support/


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