Mailing-List: contact user-help@couchdb.apache.org; run by ezmlm
Precedence: bulk
Reply-To: user@couchdb.apache.org
Received-SPF: pass (athena.apache.org: domain of dbryan.green@gmail.com
 designates 209.85.212.182 as permitted sender)
MIME-Version: 1.0
In-Reply-To: <20141028142434.301979a3@mainframe.vimsonnet.se>
References: <18918629.1172.1414455549854.JavaMail.Joan@RITA>
	<31314245.1176.1414456063097.JavaMail.Joan@RITA>
	<CA+VOMAK4EaJGqFhWkb1sKrkBAFPpKVPZSaLE60DYt70FjCcwRQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CADA9kr-bsrqXQao9SdC26JatuthRmfcfAthq4hva8dsXj2gB_g@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAFZB072tBMZBYRNjEuw3yRw2wKzeNUZK2a-bXbk1cW1Zp9x3XQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAGHTdUUv7hmK=iyU=TC7HjxRecivc9ag52A4x+t8UK3_jqptRw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAJNb-9qwPJL_3AyUjD+y6F6eFTwdTCMe_7sHqrGLf50PKnEJYw@mail.gmail.com>
	<CAF+pBj9jzdYxkXcL8DWWXCBy5ngV4+pYL-Li1Zb=NxWYsQ4r0Q@mail.gmail.com>
	<2490226E-B2F7-4DB3-A9EF-623453685A21@thehoodiefirm.com>
	<20141028142434.301979a3@mainframe.vimsonnet.se>
Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2014 08:33:13 -0500
Message-ID: 
 <CAF+pBj8Q1EnM1dvzJTZKocpLmRLn7L=qhRquxKP6M0Vjvd9BPg@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [DISCUSS] Improved CouchDB logo
From: Bryan Green <dbryan.green@gmail.com>
To: user@couchdb.apache.org
Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d04138cbb62f52005067bb087

--f46d04138cbb62f52005067bb087
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I noticed you too seem to assume it is a man on the couch?  Also, I am glad
that you point out that the logo does not have anything to do with your use
of CouchDB-- that encourages me to think that it will not be as big of an
issue to change it.

It may not offend you, but apparently it offends some people.  This is a
bad thing for a logo.  I think this is why it is rare for the human figure
to be common in most logos.  Most keep logos very simple.

Bryan
On Oct 28, 2014 8:24 AM, "Maria" <maria@dualpose.com> wrote:

> On Tue, 28 Oct 2014 12:52:23 +0100
> Lena Reinhard <lena@thehoodiefirm.com> wrote:
>
> > Joan, thanks for sharing the experiences you had. I find it quite
> > interesting that it's been happening a few times even, and I'm glad
> > people shared their thoughts on it.
> >
> > First, as far as I perceive the topic, this is not just about the
> > question if people just "like" the logo or don't. It's about people
> > feeling offended by it. And thus, it would not be about personal
> > taste or preferences. (Side note, as we're talking about "what does
> > the logo remind us of?" =E2=80=93 http://savingroomforcats.tumblr.com/ =
)
> >
> > Secondly, this is not necessarily about the intentions of the logo.
> > It may have been created depicting a person without an explicit
> > gender expression, and that would be completely alright. But good
> > intentions do generally not mean that the intention aligns with the
> > final perception. That's one of the basics of human interaction and
> > communication, and our logo is part of what we communicate around
> > this project. This logo is even a very central part, as it can be
> > recognised very well, it has a prominient spot on most of CouchDB's
> > web sites, and we even have stickers with it. A consequence of this
> > can (worst case) even be that people stay away from the community
> > because the logo communicates to them that it's not a place for them.
> >
> > And as this obviously can be read as offensive by people, imo it's
> > our responsibility as a community to discuss this issue and how to
> > handle this =E2=80=93 not based on the question whether we individually
> > "like" the logo or not, but on the question whether people could find
> > it offensive (which some obviously do) and how we handle this =E2=80=93=
 e.g.
> > who could think of alternative versions of the logo, and similar
> > questions. We are a community which has recently put up a Code of
> > Conduct and Diversity statement, and as such, I see caring about this
> > topic as part of our responsibility here.
>
> Someone somewhere is offended because their dirty imagination sees a
> man on a couch inviting a girl over for some lewd action.
> So?
> There is always someone that is offended. Specially those that try
> very hard to be offended.
>
> <sarcasm>
> As a woman I pick databases based on the logo. The more girls with pink
> dresses and sparkling stars the better. Technical reasons like
> replication and solving conflicts have nothing to do with it.
> And I find a man relaxing on a couch so offensive that I will change the
> database I use.
> </sarcasm>
>
> // Maria
>
> > On 28 Oct 2014, at 11:58, Bryan Green <dbryan.green@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > When the image lacks detail to signify it is not a man it will be
> > > thought to be male.  IRL.
> > > On Oct 28, 2014 5:54 AM, "Benoit Chesneau" <bchesneau@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> On Tue, Oct 28, 2014 at 10:15 AM, Nick North <north.n@gmail.com>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> I don't see anything offensive in the attitude of the man on the
> > >>> couch.
> > >> But
> > >>> I would be more sympathetic to the complaint that it is
> > >>> definitely a man, in a very male attitude, and that might be
> > >>> enough to put some women off becoming involved in the community.
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >> sure that is totally a man position:
> > >>
> > >> http://www.boijmans.nl/nl/116/nieuwsbrief/newsletteritem/421
> > >>
> > >>
> http://artobserved.com/2009/07/go-see-madrid-henri-matisse-at-museo-thyss=
en-bornemisza-through-september-20-2009/
> > >>
> > >> Seriously, can people just go back IRL.
> > >>
> > >> - benoit
> > >>
> >
>
>

--f46d04138cbb62f52005067bb087--