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From Robert Newson <rnew...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Help shape the future of CouchDB: your voice needed!
Date Thu, 19 Apr 2012 11:05:36 GMT
I can speak only for myself but I've been SQL syntax free for years. I
even got my sense of smell back.

B.

On 19 April 2012 11:51, Mike Kimber <mkimber@kana.com> wrote:
> Robert,
>
> I might just do that :-). To be honest I've just inherited a our couchdb project and
have little experience with it at the moment (just been trying to get it upgraded etc to-date),
So once I've actually written a few MR I'll be in e better place to provide some sensible
comment.
>
> However one generic NoSQL observation i.e. no just Couchdb is that despite NoSQL being
well "No SQL", Google with Dremel ( http://research.google.com/pubs/pub36632.html ) and Facebook
with Hive have actually put a SQL like interface on top of their Big data platforms, so like
it or not that SQL syntax is proving hard to kick.
>
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robert Newson [mailto:rnewson@apache.org]
> Sent: 18 April 2012 14:11
> To: user@couchdb.apache.org
> Subject: Re: Help shape the future of CouchDB: your voice needed!
>
> Not as yet, it's more a recognition that we should work on it than a
> full-fledged solution. Why not start a thread with some ideas?
>
> B.
>
> On 18 April 2012 14:06, Mike Kimber <mkimber@kana.com> wrote:
>> Ok thanks. Is there any details on what "Simpler Querying" on the roadmap list might
mean?
>>
>> Mike
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Robert Newson [mailto:rnewson@apache.org]
>> Sent: 18 April 2012 14:02
>> To: user@couchdb.apache.org
>> Subject: Re: Help shape the future of CouchDB: your voice needed!
>>
>> I don't see UNQL appearing on CouchDB's roadmap.
>>
>> B.
>>
>> On 18 April 2012 13:44, Mike Kimber <mkimber@kana.com> wrote:
>>> One thing I did not see on the roadmap was UNQL:
>>>
>>> Is this covered by  Simpler Querying?
>>> Is UNQL still something that interests Couchdb and if so what sort time frame
are we talking?
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Alon Keren [mailto:alon.keren@gmail.com]
>>> Sent: 16 April 2012 21:28
>>> To: user@couchdb.apache.org
>>> Subject: Re: Help shape the future of CouchDB: your voice needed!
>>>
>>> Thank you guys for making this poll, and for publishing the minutes and
>>> audio.
>>>
>>> I've voted, and it would be really nice to have this (or other) list as a
>>> wish-list that couchdb users could continuously update.
>>>
>>>  Alon
>>>
>>> On 16 April 2012 10:07, Mike Kimber <mkimber@kana.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Good on you for trying something different. I cast 100 votes and then
>>>> figured that was enough. If you want my top 5 then they are:
>>>>
>>>> 1. Chained Views
>>>> 2. Richer Map Reduce
>>>> 3. Simpler Query
>>>> 4. Performance (high update low query/read) i.e. incremental map reduce
>>>> 5. Documentation
>>>>
>>>> We use CouchDB fro analytic, hence the bias above :-)
>>>>
>>>> Keep up the good work
>>>>
>>>> Thanks
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Robert Newson [mailto:rnewson@apache.org]
>>>> Sent: 14 April 2012 18:30
>>>> To: dev@couchdb.apache.org
>>>> Cc: user@couchdb.apache.org
>>>> Subject: Re: Help shape the future of CouchDB: your voice needed!
>>>>
>>>> The feedback on the mailing lists, IRC and twitter has been very
>>>> helpful, thanks everyone for the responses!
>>>>
>>>> I'm going to take this feedback and provide a condensed list of
>>>> features. I will write up each item on our wiki, then we'll reset the
>>>> poll so that more folks can vote knowledgeably on the features. I
>>>> suspect it'll be a couple of hours, so I'll post here when it's up.
>>>>
>>>> Thanks!
>>>> B.
>>>>
>>>> On 14 April 2012 17:30, Bob Dionne <dionne@dionne-associates.com> wrote:
>>>> > I kind of agree, though I think voting is neat. I'd like to think most
>>>> of these features are influenced by experiences with users in addition to
>>>> internal refactoring concerns and so forth.
>>>> >
>>>> > It might help for everyone to see the list of features (here's a cleaned
>>>> up version I got from BobN) [1]. As Benoit suggests, we need to
>>>> sort/categorize them first before attaching priorities.
>>>> >
>>>> > One thing we might think of is the areas they might be grouped in, along
>>>> the line of teams as Jan suggested at the summit.
>>>> >
>>>> > I'm happy to maintain this list as we drill down into the specifics,
>>>> summarize email threads, and IRC chats. Some of these, .eg. moving metadata
>>>> out of the docs, could easily require a lot of detailed discussion as they
>>>> hit many areas of the code, so we should flesh out the details.
>>>> >
>>>> > It was great to meet everyone finally, I think we accomplished a whole
>>>> lot. Thanks to Cloudant, Bocoup, and others for hosting, beers, etc.. and
a
>>>> big thanks to Sam Bisbee and Joan Touzet for detailed notes and general cat
>>>> herding.
>>>> >
>>>> > Bob
>>>> >
>>>> > [1]
>>>> https://github.com/bdionne/couchdb/blob/master/feature-list-from-summit.md
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > On Apr 14, 2012, at 11:10 AM, Klaus Trainer wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> <DISCLAIMER>
>>>> >> I know CouchDB's internals to some degree and even contributed a
few
>>>> >> bits to its codebase a while ago (and still follow its development
to
>>>> >> some degree). However, I see myself primarily as a CouchDB user.
I've
>>>> >> been using it successfully not only in my own pet projects, but
also
>>>> >> together with a small team in a consulting project for a client.
I do
>>>> >> have experience when it comes to explaining CouchDB's ideas, concepts,
>>>> >> and how it can be used in practice to both technical and non-technical
>>>> >> people.
>>>> >> </DISCLAIMER>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> My initial reaction to this web page was very positive (hey, great
to
>>>> >> have a collection of great new features that we can vote upon and
>>>> >> implement!). After voting and having had some sleep on it, I'm pretty
>>>> >> sure that it's not suitable, at least not in this way, though. The
main
>>>> >> problem that I have with it is that I'm quite convinced that if
we try
>>>> >> to implement the features corresponding to their score on the results
>>>> >> page (http://www.allourideas.org/couchdb2012/results?more=true),
we
>>>> will
>>>> >> either fail executing for some reason, or (the worse case), succeed
and
>>>> >> have given CouchDB a more catchy list of features instead of having
it
>>>> >> made a better piece of software. Please let me explain the issues
that
>>>> >> seem important to me.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> The main problem with that survey is that it does neither ask nor
answer
>>>> >> the questions that are actually important if we want to make CouchDB
an
>>>> >> even better piece of software. I collected three main questions:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> 1. What problem, or rather what type of problems does that feature
>>>> >> solve?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> 2. What are the implications and tradeoffs for the different types
of
>>>> >> stakeholders that the feature brings with it?
>>>> >>    - For me as a CouchDB user, how will that feature affect me
when I'm
>>>> >> using CouchDB?
>>>> >>    - For me as a third-party developer, how will that feature
affect my
>>>> >> work on CouchDB modules/plugins/tools?
>>>> >>    - For me as a CouchDB core developer, how will that feature
affect
>>>> >> my work on CouchDB?
>>>> >>    - For me as as CouchDB package maintainer, how will that feature
>>>> >> affect my work on packaging/maintaining CouchDB?
>>>> >>    - For me as as Sysadmin / CouchDB operator, how will that feature
>>>> >> affect me on operating CouchDB?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> 3. How is or how can an existing problem be solved without having
the
>>>> >> feature implemented in CouchDB directly? (That is, are there
>>>> >> modules/plugins/tools available that help me solve that problem.
If not,
>>>> >> how difficult would it be to create one?)
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Furthermore, I've got one additional question that, although it
likely
>>>> >> helps understanding a feature, however is not as important as the
three
>>>> >> above:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> -> What are the reasons that the feature has not already been
>>>> >> implemented?
>>>> >>
>>>> >> This question is probably easier to answer when having a list of
>>>> >> potential answers, for instance:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> * Only very few users have that issue, and most users will likely
never
>>>> >> have to deal with it.
>>>> >> * Most users are confronted with that issue at some time, but it's
so
>>>> >> trivial to solve it without having the feature in CouchDB anyway.
>>>> >> * It's hard to implement because (although feasible) it's just so
much
>>>> >> work.
>>>> >> * It's hard to implement because its highly complex and very uncertain
>>>> >> if it can be brought into CouchDB anyway.
>>>> >> * Although easy to implement or already implemented, it hasn't been
>>>> >> and/or won't be accepted by the CouchDB core developers for some
reason.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On Fri, 2012-04-13 at 20:24 -0400, Joan Touzet wrote:
>>>> >>> Thanks to everyone who participated in the CouchDB summit in
Boston
>>>> this
>>>> >>> week! In case you didn't know, the (25 pages!) of meeting minutes
are
>>>> >>> available for review at http://s.apache.org/ndI .
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Here's where we need YOUR HELP. During the summit, the participants
>>>> >>> identified 38 key features we think are important for CouchDB's
future.
>>>> >>> Please help us RANK these ideas by visiting our All Our Ideas
page:
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>   http://www.allourideas.org/couchdb2012/
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> All Our Ideas is a free/open source solution for voting based
on
>>>> >>> pairwise comparison - think Kittenwar - and is super easy to
use.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Please complete as many comparisons as you can; we'd like all
the
>>>> >>> feedback we can get. We'd be thrilled if each of you did at
least 100
>>>> >>> comparisons.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> Thanks again for your help in determining the future of Apache
CouchDB!
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>>

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