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From Andrew Tunnell-Jones <and...@tj.id.au>
Subject Re: Peer-to-Peer Replication
Date Sat, 09 Apr 2011 08:15:55 GMT
Sending this from a mobile so excuse my brevity -- GameKit is essentially Bonjour + stuff,
Bonjour is just DNSSD (in the protocol sense) which in turn is what Avahi does. Avahi provide
a compatibility wrapper which emulates much of Apples DNSSD API. The Erlang interface I mentioned
wraps the Apple DNSSD API so in theory it'll work on iOS, OS X, Windows and Linux.

Hope that clarifies things a little,

Andrew

On 08/04/2011, at 21:18, Dave Cottlehuber <dave@muse.net.nz> wrote:

> On 9 April 2011 19:14, Chris Anderson <jchris@apache.org> wrote:
>> I heard from one experienced iOS dev, that the best way to
>> interconnect locally is in GameKit.
>> 
>> Chris
>> 
>> On Fri, Apr 8, 2011 at 11:22 AM, Andrew Tunnell-Jones <andrew@tj.id.au> wrote:
>>> I've been pondering a subset of this problem as I want to implement
>>> opportunistic replication. I'd like to use DNS Service Discovery
>>> (often referred to as ZeroConf) and I've already written an Erlang
>>> interface to Apple's Bonjour DNSSD API[1] which works on OS X and
>>> Linux via Avahi's compatibility layer. The code should be portable to
>>> Windows but I've not gone there yet.
>>> 
>>> Slight digression - Apple Bonjour on OS X and Windows can be
>>> configured to advertise and browse services over the internet (it'll
>>> setup a port forward via NAT-PMP or uPnP if needed/available) via any
>>> DNS server which supports DNS Update and has an appropriately
>>> configured zone[2], though it works a lot better if the server
>>> implements Apple's extensions for real-time updates (DNS-LLQ) and
>>> automatic record expiration (DNS-UL). (I've written a CouchDB backed
>>> one that does[3].) Avahi's wide-area support is read-only, though
>>> their trac install indicates write support is slated for 0.7[4].
>>> 
>>> Back to CouchDB - I haven't worked out the exact mechanics but I'd
>>> like to do something along the lines of starting an SSL mochiweb
>>> listener and then advertising it using the hash of the SSL cert
>>> (self-signed or otherwise) as the service name. As part of the service
>>> advertisement, a user-friendly text identifier would be included that
>>> can be arbitrarily changed (as the cert hash is the real identifier).
>>> The SSL transport would require mutual acceptance of certificates
>>> which would be configured by POST'ing a hash to a particular URL. A
>>> list of services (hashes) and further information on a given service
>>> (including the friendly identifier) would be retrievable via other
>>> URLs. Replication would be configured in a similar manner to
>>> _replicator with schema being dropped from target/source URLs and a
>>> peers hash being used in place of a hostname. Continuous replication
>>> would be persisted between restarts and then setup and torn down as
>>> services appear and disappear.
>>> 
>>> Keeping in mind this is mostly conjecture at this point, any thoughts?
>>> 
>>> Andrew
>>> 
>>> 1. https://github.com/andrewtj/dnssd_erlang
>>> 2. http://dns-sd.org/ServerSetup.html (dated)
>>> 3. https://github.com/andrewtj/dnsxd
>>> 4. http://avahi.org/milestone/Avahi%200.7
>>> 
>>>> From: Ryan Ramage <ryan.ramage@gmail.com>
>>>> To: user@couchdb.apache.org
>>>> Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2011 09:40:48 -0600
>>>> Subject: Re: Peer-to-Peer Replication
>>>> I think we are missing the issue. We do all agree that couch is great
>>>> at replicating when it has been wired up with src and dest urls.
>>>> 
>>>> The issue is more around creating a distributed graph management to
>>>> handle nodes (couches) in a peer to peer manner. I don't think this
>>>> space has been really explored.
>>>> 
>>>> For a local network, there are lots of service discovery protocols
>>>> that you could use, something like
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero_configuration_networking or
>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Plug_and_Play
>>>> but of course this would be outside of what couch does. I think
>>>> BigCouch may have something like that built in, but someone from
>>>> Cloudant would have to confirm.
>>>> 
>>>> For a more p2p system, this is a much harder problem. For one, you
>>>> mentioned the network ports. If you are imagining average people using
>>>> this, then you would have to deal with managing port forwarding using
>>>> Internet Gateway Device Protocol. At least one couch on the end of a
>>>> replication would have to be able to be accessed by http through a
>>>> router. You would want a user friendly way to do this.
>>>> 
>>>> Next is managing the graph. This is hard. No help from couch again.
>>>> Nodes going up and down, etc.
>>>> 
>>>> It would be fun to see some work done on this. For extra points it
>>>> would be cool if it where done in erlang and could be contributed into
>>>> the couch core :)
>>>> 
>>>> Ryan
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Chris Anderson
>> http://jchrisa.net
>> http://couchbase.com
>> 
> 
> Is there an advantage in using an erlang-based discovery rather than
> iOS library - surely linking up with any nearby couch is preferred?
> 
> A+
> Dave

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