From user-return-10182-apmail-couchdb-user-archive=couchdb.apache.org@couchdb.apache.org Mon Apr 19 18:42:12 2010 Return-Path: Delivered-To: apmail-couchdb-user-archive@www.apache.org Received: (qmail 47363 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2010 18:42:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail.apache.org) (140.211.11.3) by 140.211.11.9 with SMTP; 19 Apr 2010 18:42:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 69261 invoked by uid 500); 19 Apr 2010 18:42:11 -0000 Delivered-To: apmail-couchdb-user-archive@couchdb.apache.org Received: (qmail 69209 invoked by uid 500); 19 Apr 2010 18:42:10 -0000 Mailing-List: contact user-help@couchdb.apache.org; run by ezmlm Precedence: bulk List-Help: List-Unsubscribe: List-Post: List-Id: Reply-To: user@couchdb.apache.org Delivered-To: mailing list user@couchdb.apache.org Received: (qmail 69201 invoked by uid 99); 19 Apr 2010 18:42:10 -0000 Received: from nike.apache.org (HELO nike.apache.org) (192.87.106.230) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Mon, 19 Apr 2010 18:42:10 +0000 X-ASF-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.2 required=10.0 tests=FREEMAIL_FROM,HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE,SPF_PASS,T_TO_NO_BRKTS_FREEMAIL X-Spam-Check-By: apache.org Received-SPF: pass (nike.apache.org: domain of jameshfisher@gmail.com designates 74.125.78.26 as permitted sender) Received: from [74.125.78.26] (HELO ey-out-2122.google.com) (74.125.78.26) by apache.org (qpsmtpd/0.29) with ESMTP; Mon, 19 Apr 2010 18:42:04 +0000 Received: by ey-out-2122.google.com with SMTP id 4so429670eyf.41 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2010 11:41:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:received:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=FzrunsVnWNmbD1mC71dGttZQqqPIKVYJJb6UU2KcNo0=; b=FQJbZ06JAMRsbcjtCwzBSjxJoGsAspasbQOzod7i2bdd9g9jZR43FUwNufDFkgiYHE HXLmt6PqQjKKO7uzlgreOtsbNRAccax4foz3Q1zwdoyQeuIm9+XyKnR2A9izclGeGY0W X3e8wMpriWKDRGOPJ9hY5gnm1HJAwr/wNFCVc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=rRFTXjynudL4E4leFGWJyN27Hum/mHPOfrQzo/TwfIotARHkj7Bgp/YEJ2NlrFf4Gr 3wDwbXgC9bMt/yIaLgGtZ+My6hhkc3gltZ5bv1OAVyJoI1vcKalY5qOvoU5+sUoxqNeZ NCy16yhhFVqw34/N/bmxWdZipVmyqpHFC/wJo= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.213.28.79 with HTTP; Mon, 19 Apr 2010 11:41:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <1C09DD07-CAA2-455D-9E45-27341C160A34@dionne-associates.com> References: <642757B9-E353-422B-BE94-9B12653494D5@gmail.com> <6307C060-1571-44F2-A1DF-1815F460B665@gmail.com> <1C09DD07-CAA2-455D-9E45-27341C160A34@dionne-associates.com> Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2010 19:41:41 +0100 Received: by 10.213.37.9 with SMTP id v9mr2855098ebd.38.1271702501819; Mon, 19 Apr 2010 11:41:41 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: Subject: Re: CouchDB brand identity and design of couchdb.apache.org From: James Fisher To: user@couchdb.apache.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=00148530af0ae187b204849b4f81 X-Virus-Checked: Checked by ClamAV on apache.org --00148530af0ae187b204849b4f81 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey all, I've had a long weekend away. Nice to see this thread's still active. I've procured a copy of Myriad, and swapped Candela out. My opinions haven't really changed in that regard, but the majority seem to be in favou= r of keeping Myriad. (Though I almost cried at comparisons of Candela with Comic Sans. I could show you what that would look like; you'd be horrified. It's a shame that that abomination has destroyed any reputability of any other rounded fonts.) WRT Chris' fork: * I like the copy; I've pulled it * The background color I was using was too gloomy, but I'm not sure swappin= g back to plain is the best solution. I've lightened the cyans I was working with. * I understand the desire to keep the old logotype, but the "relax" slogan looks even more cramped now that the rest of the site has more space. * The left-hand-side navigation could be OK if the right CSS was applied. The bullet points seriously break up the left align, which I would say is bad. Also, it suffers from the problem that was the reason I moved from there: the huge amount of space it takes from the body text. That's alrigh= t with promo material, but if (e.g.) you wanted to style a wiki using the sam= e (or similar) design, it would be terribly cramped. This is how things stand: http://github.com/eegg/couchdb_web/raw/master/screenshot.png Large caveat: the bold text for "CouchDB ... time to relax" should actually be in *Semibold*. Annoyingly, I can't set that with my warez copy of Myriad. Perhaps someone could edit the SVG and re-rasterize, and I'll pull it. James On Mon, Apr 19, 2010 at 5:11 PM, Robert Dionne wrote: > This is looking quite nice. I'm not a grammar expert but I think you can > lose the two commas. > > Cheers, > > Bob > > On Apr 19, 2010, at 11:58 AM, J Chris Anderson wrote: > > > > > On Apr 17, 2010, at 9:30 AM, Noah Slater wrote: > > > >> CouchDB is a database built for the Web. > >> > >> Or, like I already mentioned, we could use this quote: > >> > >> "Let me tell you something: Django may be built for the Web, but > CouchDB is built of the Web." > >> > >> - http://jacobian.org/writing/of-the-web/ > >> > >> Thoughts? > >> > > > > I've forked James' git project and some work on it. Here is a screensho= t: > > > > http://jchrisa.net/media/couchdb-web/couchdb-web.png > > > > The fork is at http://github.com/jchris/couchdb_web > > > > The main changes are to the copy, the font (back to myriad) and back > toward something like his first layout (but without the pillows.) > > > > Thanks James for the inspiration. I think this still requires some work= , > but it was fun to get my hands dirty. > > > > Chris > > > > > >> On 17 Apr 2010, at 17:21, Phil Rand wrote: > >> > >>> "CouchDB is a database at home with the web." > >>> > >>> Or "...comfortable with the web." > >>> > >>> Regarding fonts, I feel like a beer drinker at a wine tasting. They > both > >>> look fine to me. > >>> > >>> 2010/4/13 Robert Newson > >>> > >>>> Very nice design. s/geared for the web/designed for the web/ ? > >>>> > >>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 9:41 PM, Pawe=C5=82 Stawicki < > pawelstawicki@gmail.com> > >>>> wrote: > >>>>> I like the new design. Font is not so important for me, can be old > one, > >>>> can > >>>>> be new one. > >>>>> > >>>>> -- > >>>>> Pawe=C5=82 Stawicki > >>>>> http://pawelstawicki.blogspot.com > >>>>> http://szczecin.jug.pl > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> > >>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 22:35, J Chris Anderson > >>>> wrote: > >>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> On Apr 13, 2010, at 1:22 PM, James Fisher wrote: > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 8:40 PM, J Chris Anderson < > jchris@gmail.com> > >>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> On Apr 13, 2010, at 12:21 PM, James Fisher wrote: > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> Apalling internet connection atm. Try: > >>>>>>>> http://i41.tinypic.com/156aeds.jpg > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I really like the simplicity. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Thanks. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> I think you will have a hard time convincing people to change th= e > >>>> word > >>>>>> mark > >>>>>>>> associated with the current CouchDB / Relax logo. If you can go > back > >>>> to > >>>>>> the > >>>>>>>> old (less relaxing) font and type-setting for that, > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Mmm, I do wonder how ingrained it is. I suppose the pros and con= s > >>>> are: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> --- > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Myriad (if that is what it is) pros: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> * Expensive. Possibly gives a subconscious feel of luxury. > >>>>>>> * Already used. If (if) CouchDB already has a well-ingrained bra= nd > >>>>>>> identity, it's wise to keep it. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I think the "Already used" point is the most salient. There are > already > >>>> a > >>>>>> ton of t-shirts, releases, etc all using the current logo. > >>>>>> > >>>>>> I think if we were gonna move from the current logo / word mark, > we'd > >>>> only > >>>>>> move to something even more expensive. But that's my opinion... > >>>>>> > >>>>>> CouchDB is relaxing, but overplaying that too much can scare away > people > >>>>>> who want to use it for serious things. > >>>>>> > >>>>>>> * Presumably has a much better character set if it's ever going t= o > be > >>>>>> used > >>>>>>> extensively (I doubt it). > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> cons: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> * Expensive. Even my own warez collection of fonts hasn't manage= d > to > >>>>>> hoover > >>>>>>> it up. I doubt many people except professional graphic artists o= wn > a > >>>>>>> genuine copy. > >>>>>>> * Extensively used by Apple (http://www.apple.com/ I don't think > >>>> there's > >>>>>>> much they produce that *isn't* in Myriad). I suppose you could > call > >>>> that > >>>>>> a > >>>>>>> pro if you want to piggyback; but I don't think the CouchDB > identity > >>>> fits > >>>>>>> very well with brushed aluminium. I don't want to kick back on a= n > >>>>>> aluminium > >>>>>>> couch. > >>>>>>> * (my own feeling is that it is) a bit too formal. It has a > "friendly > >>>>>>> high-class business" feel (can't find the words there). E.g. > >>>>>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myriad_%28typeface%29 mentions it's > used > >>>> by > >>>>>> All > >>>>>>> Nippon business class flights. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> --- > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> Candela pros: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> * I think it looks like a couch, in a hard-to-define way. > >>>>>>> * Free (and libre) (at least for the purposes of @font-face and a= ny > >>>> other > >>>>>>> CouchDB literature, AFAICT from the license). > >>>>>>> * Untrammelled by other prominent commercial use -- making it > >>>> potentially > >>>>>>> highly distinctive as "that CouchDB font". > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> cons: > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> * CouchDB community rebellion against it? (?!) > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> --- > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> and perhaps drop the saturation on the Cyan (light-blue-grey wou= ld > be > >>>>>> nice > >>>>>>>> I think) you'd be getting somewhere. > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> I agree with you there, I think. Alternatively, turn up the > >>>> brightness. > >>>>>>> Doing a bit of both helps. > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 8:12 PM, Julian Moritz < > >>>>>> mailings@julianmoritz.de > >>>>>>>>> wrote: > >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Hi, > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> James Fisher schrieb: > >>>>>>>>>>> I've no idea if I can attach PNGs here, but here goes. Find > >>>> attached > >>>>>>>>>>> one proposed design. Only Inkscape atm, but I should be able > to > >>>>>>>> convert > >>>>>>>>>>> to HTML with little fuss. A few notes: > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Let me know if > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> no png attached. Seems you've been interupted while writing th= is > >>>>>> email? > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> Regards > >>>>>>>>>> Julian > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Apr 13, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Noah Slater >>>>>>>>>>> > wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> On 13 Apr 2010, at 13:54, James Fisher wrote: > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>>> Certainly will do. I'm doing some rough sketches now; might > get > >>>>>>>>>>> something > >>>>>>>>>>>> up in the next couple of days. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Please take a look at these designs: > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Homepage: > >>>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pme28/full > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Homepage/Downloads: > >>>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmetj/full > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Homepage/Screenshots: > >>>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmevr/full > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Wiki: > >>>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmexo/full > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Wiki/Syntax reference: > >>>>>>>>>>> http://twitpic.com/pmf2r/full > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> I think we all agreed at the time that this was a good way > >>>> forward > >>>>>>>>>>> for the site. > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Search the dev mailing list for "Website redesign" and maybe > get > >>>> in > >>>>>>>>>>> touch with: > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> maddiin >>>>>>>>>> maddiin@googlemail.com>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> He was doing most of the work on this last time! > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> Thanks, > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> N > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>>> > >>>>> > >>>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Phil Rand > >>> philrand@gmail.com > >>> philrand@pobox.com > >> > > > --00148530af0ae187b204849b4f81--