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Date: Thu, 28 Jan 2010 22:40:53 -0800
Message-ID: <23c535ff1001282240nd7fb2b8s22c48cf322d0c9c8@mail.gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Time machine backup while CouchDB running?
From: Kevin Ferguson <kevin@meebo-inc.com>
To: user@couchdb.apache.org
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David, check out this preso-- it should explain how the CouchDB storage
engine works in a bit more detail.

http://jchrisa.net/drl/_design/sofa/_show/post/How-CouchDB-Treats-the-Disks

Kevin

On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 10:37 PM, David Van Couvering <
david.vancouvering@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thinking further on this: I think one difference is with Derby each table
> is
> its own file.  Since you need to maintain relational consistency in a SQL
> DB, this is a problem if you're copying lots of table files while
> transactions are in flight.  Sybase could be a single file (or raw device=
),
> or it could be split across multiple devices for better throughput, so
> again
> you have potential consistency problems (plus I think you tended to back =
up
> through a special API, as standard file copy doesn't work on raw devices)=
.
>
> I guess in CouchDB since it's a single file, *perhaps* you don't have the
> same issues around maintaining consistency...
>
> On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 10:33 PM, David Van Couvering <
> david.vancouvering@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Well, that's true of any database, but for most databases if you try to
> > take a "snapshot" of a db file while it's running, chances are pretty
> good
> > you're not going to like what you get.  More often than not a transacti=
on
> > will have been half-written to the file when you "grab" it and back it
> up.
> >  And as we all know, the only thing worse than finding a worm in an app=
le
> is
> > finding half a worm...
> >
> > That's why "online backup" is a key feature requirement for any databas=
e
> > worth it's salt.  We had to implement it for Sybase, and we had to
> implement
> > it for Apache Derby.
> >
> > What I'm hearing here is because the way CouchDB works (I'm not sure I
> > fully grok it), at any point you take a copy of the db file, it's in a
> > consistent state.  I guess what this means is each document is written =
as
> a
> > single atomic write, so you can't end up with half a document in your
> > backup.
> >
> > I know you've told me this works, but call me paranoid - is that really
> > true?  What if the document is umpteen gajillibytes long?  Is it still
> > written as a *single atomic write* to the disk?  Do you all lock the fi=
le
> > each time you do a write?  Does Time Machine lock the file from writes
> the
> > whole time it's reading it/taking a snapshot of it?  Just want to make
> > really sure we're all on the same page here.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > David
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 28, 2010 at 9:51 PM, de Saint Martin C=E9dric <
> > cedric@desaintmartin.fr> wrote:
> >
> >>        Tell me if I'm wrong, but CouchDB's databases are stored in
> files.
> >> So if you backup all these files, there is no risk of corrupting your
> data.
> >>        Conclusion : TimeMachine will work.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 29 janv. 2010, at 00:41, David Van Couvering wrote:
> >>
> >> > Anyone know if a TimeMachine backup of a running CouchDB will work, =
or
> >> is
> >> > there a likelihood of corruption?
> >> >
> >> > --
> >> > David W. Van Couvering
> >> >
> >> > http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidvc
> >> > http://davidvancouvering.blogspot.com
> >> > http://twitter.com/dcouvering
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > David W. Van Couvering
> >
> > http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidvc
> > http://davidvancouvering.blogspot.com
> > http://twitter.com/dcouvering
> >
>
>
>
> --
> David W. Van Couvering
>
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/davidvc
> http://davidvancouvering.blogspot.com
> http://twitter.com/dcouvering
>

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