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From Jens Alfke <>
Subject Re: Proposal for digital signatures of documents
Date Sun, 08 Mar 2009 17:40:57 GMT

On Mar 8, 2009, at 1:07 AM, Noah Slater wrote:

> This is an interesting idea, but surely document level signing is  
> something that
> sits at the application level, not the database level.

Yes, that's why I sent this to user@ instead of dev@. :)
It's kind of a middleware feature: not part of the db itself, but  
common enough that many different applications may want to use it. So  
it would be nice to have a system that wasn't part of a specific app.

> I'm not sure that I would replicate from an untrusted node, unless I  
> was prepared to deal with the consequences.

This isn't about trusting nodes, it's about trusting documents. In a  
distributed system, a document you receive from me will often not have  
been created by me. Even if you trust me, do you trust all the nodes  
that I replicate from? Or the ones they replicate from? (And do you  
trust there isn't some malware on my system overwriting crucial  
payload bytes inside my DB file?)

The only way to trust the entire network of nodes is to own all of  
them. This works great if you're using replication in a locked-down  
data center, but not elsewhere.

> If I did want to make sure of the identity of the node I was  
> replicating with I would either tunnel over a secure connection  
> using hosts keys or proxy through an SSL gateway with server/client  
> certificates and an ACL.

SSL connections are valuable for privacy, but in a message-passing  
system they don't do anything for authentication of content. As an  
analogy: you probably use an SSL connection to receive your email from  
a trusted mail server. But somehow you still get spam with forged  
headers. The solution to this is S/MIME, which involves signing the  

Conversely, if the messages are signed, it saves you from having to  
trust the messenger. This is really convenient, as you can make use of  
any reachable nearby node to help relay messages, even if it's a  
nearby stranger's laptop at the café. (You can trust your snail mail  
because the envelopes are sealed, even though you don't know your  

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