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From Andy Wenk <andyw...@apache.org>
Subject Re: CouchDB Song
Date Mon, 21 Sep 2015 12:44:06 GMT
Hi Harald,

(top posting, because I don't want to loose the great answer from Jason
which I leave as it is.)

The discussions about the Couchapp functionality does rise a lot of
discussions. Some people are not agreeing with the way the PMC is
suggesting to go on with Couchapps. That's not a good situation as this is
an OpenSource community. I am very happy about your friendly and
constructive answer. I am a bit fed up with accusations and inappropriate
speech. So thank you.

I am not sure how detailed you know the history of the CouchDB community
starting from 2007 as an incubator project and up from 2008 as an ASF top
level project. So I would like to write down some facts.

When I started to join the project as a fan of CouchDB there have been 4
committers and Damien. I was talking a lot with JChris at a Goole ML about
Couchapp. I loved it and thought it was a perfect hot thing. You just need
CouchDB and bam, you have a running Webapp with Couchapp. But it had also
it's flaws. It was a bit complicated and hard to understand, how this all
works with Mustache views and so on. And it had clearly also it's
limitations.

Then some of the commiters started to run a business with various names.
Damien, Jan and JChris founded the company and Mikeal became an employee.
After some time problems arise in the community with the final exit of
Damien. Furthermore, Mikeal followed other paths, JChris stayed in the
company which is now Couchbase and Jan stayed with Apache CouchDB. So you
see, the fact that these people are not active in the CouchDB project
anymore has nothing to do with Couchapp or the fact that the community did
not want to follow it further.

As stated in other posts already. Yes, there are people who based their
business on Couchapp. That's a cool thing. But the fact, that no commiters
are developing Couchapp further because of many reasons (plz read the other
threads) and the fact, that CouchDB 2.0 is bringing a major feature with
clustering to become a world class database able to compete with other
NoSQL databases, is leading to the position to reduce the support for
Couchapp. We are all volunteers and our time is limited. This is a natural
progression.

As Jan has stated in another thread. We are an welcoming Open Source
project. Everybody who is interested can work on features, that have a wide
consensus to include them into CouchDB. But if there are no people doing
the work, it is also a natural thing, that we concentrate on other things.
Maybe also drop some functionality.

Last but not least I want to make clear, that we (the PMC) did NOT say that
we drop the support. But we will not work on it further and we may remove
code and make it available somewhere else (maybe as a plugin?). If that
happens already with CouchDB 2.0 or 2.1 is not clear at the moment.

I hope this gives a little insight about the history and future about
CouchDB. I am sad to see anybody move away from CouchDB. But we encourage
everybody to work with us and make CouchDB more awesome. If CouchDB does
not fit your needs anymore, I am sorry to hear. But in a growing project,
this is also natural ...

All the best

Andy

On 20 September 2015 at 03:29, Jason Smith <jason.h.smith@gmail.com> wrote:

> At the outset: my biases:
>
> * Sit on and agree with the PMC
> * Built a company, Iris Couch, whose web site was 100% CouchApp
> * Huge, huge Chris Anderson fan
>
> I support the principle of CouchDB as an application server; however, I
> have specific concerns with the current situation, as it is. I have long
> argued against CouchApps, not against the philosophy (a CouchDB app server)
> but against the execution: CouchApps are extremely developer-hostile, both
> in the early stage (it is difficult to learn and understand) and in the
> late stage (most problems cannot be solved with a CouchApp alone, so what's
> the point?).
>
>
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/couchdb-user/201108.mbox/%3CCAN-3CBJzhQrY9qmhdgRQGYijWiNgaKeMAFJBOE2FZPctdf5b-w@mail.gmail.com%3E
>
> On Sun, Sep 20, 2015 at 7:49 AM, Miles Fidelman <
> mfidelman@meetinghouse.net> wrote:
>
>> I'm going to echo what Harald says.  To me, one of Couch's great benefits
>> is that it can serve apps.  The specific CouchApp tooling, I'm not so
>> interested in - but basic support functions, in the database engine -
>> that's pretty important.
>>
>> One thing that's really not clear, or well documented, are precisely
>> which Couch API functions are specifically related to CouchApps (if any).
>> Which functions in Couch are there specifically to support serving apps?
>> What functions are folks talking about removing?  What exactly are we
>> talking about here.
>>
>
> +1
>
> Hear, hear! Let's begin a fresh discussion in dev@ to identify exactly
> what changes we are talking about.
>
> If I'm not wrong, the specific changes discussed in the PMC is primarily
> to refactor some functions into plugins. Something like that could easily
> be win-win.
>
> --
> Andy Wenk
> Hamburg - Germany
> RockIt!
>
> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>
> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>

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