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From Johs Ensby <j...@b2w.com>
Subject Re: The future of couchapps
Date Sun, 20 Sep 2015 08:49:06 GMT
Thanks Joan,
for wrapping this up in a 100% PMC support for Jan's "watch me" on this.
It is good to know, so we who could contribute, but not as erlang programmers, hold our horses.
I understand that we can be a big nuisance as long as there is no one to do the development
work on the team. 

Just to sum my take-away:
The PMC will wholeheartedly welcome the continuation of work for what we without a good breakdown
of what it means call "couchapps" provided there is a "hero" to do the heavy lifting in terms
of erlang programming
We should not count on even the present functionality for "Couchapps" being present in future
releases

To #1 I attribute these statements:
> Jan Lehnardt 18. sep. 2015
> In my last email I specifically suggested for such a person to step up and I’d welcome
them wholeheartedly.

>> Alexander Shorin  September 19, 2015 

>> this place is vacant and we are welcome everyone who would
>> like to take this duty on his/her shoulders.


and to #2 I look at:
Jan's "watch me" response to Giovanni's 
>> - you can't remove something that ALREADY exists which A LOT of
>> people like, use and have businesses on top, just because you and a few
>> people

and
Alex'
>>  Otherwise CouchApps will continue to be feature of secondary type, sort of accidental
side
>> effect from technical decisions of good past days. No need to say
>> what such state means. They may simply not survive next major release.


Alex' more consequential prediction i presume is the meaning behind Jan's "watch me", since
this still is an open source community, and I am perfectly OK with there being some emotions
in this conversation. It is not about the nuances anymore, it is about  100% of the PMC backing
this.

For me it means leaving the community for now.
It doesn't make sense to me to spend time here until an Erlang programmer has chosen to respond
to the wholehearted welcome that has been extended.
I see CouchDB as part of a bigger ecosystem and will try to contribute at some other node.

My best wishes for success and progress with hopes for extended openness and compatibility
with the rest of the Couch ecosystem

Johs





> On 20. sep. 2015, at 00.12, Joan Touzet <wohali@apache.org> wrote:
> 
> I'll concur with Alex here. My survey of the PMC members so far has
> resulted in 100% of us in agreement with Jan's comments.
> 
> This is not a power play, it is a logical, reasoned decision with many
> factors that play a part -- not the least of which is that there are so
> many great web frameworks out there that do such a better job than we do
> with CouchApps. We'd need a massive effort to catch up with them, and a
> significant number of developers just to keep pace. Right now, there's
> no one working on CouchApps period, as has been repeatedly stated on the
> list.
> 
> If you are willing to put in the time to develop the Erlang, JavaScript
> and possibly C to build the new functionality, and are able to sustain
> development on that over the course of the years it would take to match
> e.g. Python or Node.JS's community level for web apps...well, let's just
> say that I look forward to your GitHub pull requests. :)
> 
> Best regards,
> Joan
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Alexander Shorin" <kxepal@gmail.com>
>> To: marketing@couchdb.apache.org
>> Sent: Saturday, September 19, 2015 1:45:52 PM
>> Subject: Re: The future of couchapps
>> 
>> Hi John,
>> 
>> The future of CouchApps is trivial and was already discussed on this
>> ML[1]: this feature stalled over 4 years already, it has quite enough
>> issues and limitations, it lacks maintainer. If something of these
>> won't change in nearest future, CouchApps are doomed. And all
>> solutions lies though the hero(es) who will maintain and develop this
>> feature.
>> 
>> The question here is not only about to keep existed code works. It's
>> also about vision of what CouchApps are, what they have to be, how to
>> evolve them and make really great and useful feature for CouchDB
>> users
>> and not only.
>> 
>> Currently, there is no active leader of CouchApp feature in CouchDB
>> team, so this place is vacant and we are welcome everyone who would
>> like to take this duty on his/her shoulders.  Otherwise CouchApps
>> will
>> continue to be feature of secondary type, sort of accidental side
>> effect from technical decisions of good past days. No need to say
>> what
>> such state means. They may simply not survive next major release.
>> 
>> [1]: Follow this thread:
>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/couchdb-marketing/201505.mbox/%3CCAPMhwa5R6CdeQP-m_FHfqYsJ4NDwLYiePuwrsi2bRfzifncRpw%40mail.gmail.com%3E
>> - it's long, but has all the same answers.
>> 
>> --
>> ,,,^..^,,,
>> 
>> 
>> On Sat, Sep 19, 2015 at 8:16 PM, Johs Ensby <johs@b2w.com> wrote:
>>> Hi all -- both couchapp lovers and skeptics,
>>> 
>>> I want to start a new thread based on the below conversation
>>> between Jan and Giovanni at the end of the thread [VOTE]
>>> WHY/HOW/WHAT.
>>> 
>>> I am in the group of stakeholders that have a business that rely on
>>> CouchDB. And I use couchApps hosted on Cloudant. I would like to
>>> see the community grow, not split again and there seems to be a
>>> tone developing that I am sorry if I have been a contributor to.
>>> Rather than having wide-reaching discussion about dream features
>>> of future couchapps, I will try to stay on the subject of a future
>>> for couchapps or not.
>>> 
>>> The "watch me" from Jan below is very disturbing to me.
>>> I would appreciate seeing some comments from PMC members on this.
>>> 
>>> Johs
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 18. sep. 2015, at 13.52, Jan Lehnardt <jan@apache.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> - you don't know if tomorrow some erlang skilled couchapp lover
>>>>> won't get
>>>>> in and start working on the app part (to say the truth some of
>>>>> them were
>>>>> already active in the past, but they chose to left just because
>>>>> of
>>>>> this/yours direction)
>>>> 
>>>> In my last email I specifically suggested for such a person to
>>>> step up and I’d welcome them wholeheartedly.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> - you can't remove something that ALREADY exists which A LOT of
>>>>> people
>>>>> like, use and have businesses on top, just because you and a few
>>>>> people
>>>>> don't like it
>>>> 
>>>> Watch me.
>>> 
>> 


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