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Date: Wed, 06 May 2015 12:54:07 -0400
From: Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@meetinghouse.net>
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To: user@couchdb.apache.org, marketing@couchdb.apache.org
Subject: Re: How do CouchApps fit into the CouchDB story? (Was:
 CouchDB Articles, Pills and Tutorials Ideas)
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Jan Lehnardt wrote:
>> On 06 May 2015, at 17:57, Giovanni Lenzi<g.lenzi@smileupps.com>  wrote:
>>
>> Given the importance of the topic: the future of couchapp... I'm moving
>> this from the @marketing to the user@ mailing list.
> I’d say this is too early, would prefer we keep this on marketing@ until
> we have the messaging right. Everything else follows from them. Given that
> user@ is missing the entire “the why of CouchDB” context that marketing@
> has, I’d say moving this is premature.
>
> I also *could* see this as a cheap ploy to quickly garner public pressure
> against my position, but in good faith, I won’t assume this is your motive.

If this is the kind of discussion going on, on the marketing list, then 
you REALLY need to open it up to user feedback.  I think you're going 
off track.

Re. a couple of things below:
>> This should be definitely something @users should be involved in.. at least
>> those interested in Couchapps.
>>
>> To recap:
>> Jan: wants to remove Couchapp name and design doc functions because it
>> finds them to be source of confusion
> This does not adequately reflects my position. I don’t suggest to remove
> any of the things that make CouchApps possible.
>
> My larger argument can be foundhttp://markmail.org/message/no3jfksdxjcgxz4d  andhttp://markmail.org/message/xla3hulea4lo5duw
>
> tl;dr: I’d like us to think about how the CouchApp (or whatever the
> final name might be) story fits into the larger CouchDB story of “Data where
> you need it.” — Not necessarily how the slogan made be “true” in the context
> of CouchApps (e.g. “Data (and logic) where you need it.”, but more:
>
> - CouchDB’s core feature is geographically distributed replication.

Really?  That's the argument that lead to CouchBase.

Yes, MVCC w/ replication is A core feature, but, at least to me, Couch's 
core feature is a full-featured HTTP interface -- everything is a 
resource, accessed through RESTful HTTP operations.

>
> - We also have somewhat quirky, while technically neat, applications that can
> live inside CouchDB.
>
> I don’t think that last bit helps paint the big picture CouchDB story at all.
> Granted, I’m making a deliberately weak attempt of tying things together
> (because I don’t know any better), but this is to get you thinking about how
> this could fit in our larger narrative, if at all.

 From this user's perspective, you're 100% wrong on this.  The fact that 
you can use CouchDB as an App Server is of particularly high value; the 
more so that the Apps can run in a browser.  More to the point - it's an 
HTML5 WebApp server, making it a full platform for RESTful applications.

> My current thinking is that we can’t make it clear and thus should figure out a
> plan to retire “CouchApp”, while still allowing all the cool tech, and find a
> new name for the concept that can live on without making CouchDB’s core message
> unclear.
>

Hell no!

Maybe the tooling for CouchApps is a bit funky, but the support for them 
is (IMHO) core features of Couch.  And the notion of Couch as an App 
Server is pretty straightforward - and the term fits quite nicely.

Rather than retire the term, or relegate it to obsucrity - market it 
aggressively!  Perhaps to the the extent of changing the current tag 
line on couchdb.apache.org from "A Database for the Web" to "A Database 
and Integrated App Server for the Web."

> Please join us on the marketing@couchdb.apache.org list for this discussion.

Done :-)

Miles Fidleman


-- 
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.   .... Yogi Berra