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From "Johs. E" <>
Subject Re: the future of couchapp
Date Tue, 12 May 2015 14:12:41 GMT
Hi Miles,
leads gen is another concept in the sales paradigm of the 1960's that is
very popular in companies that dont't understand the marketing concept.
Marketing is really about leaving sales behind.
No one sells me Mac or iPhone, Apple don't bother turning me into a lead.
They serve my needs and wants. Same thing with AWS.

2015-05-12 14:28 GMT+02:00 Miles Fidelman <>:

> I've always preferred the functional view of marketing:  Lead Generation.
> After getting someone's attention, and getting them to ask for more
> information, then we're talking sales.
> Miles Fidelman
> Johs Ensby wrote:
>> Jan,
>> Hi PMC,
>> I would like to share my two favourite definitions of marketing.
>> 1) the externally oriented:
>> Create value and extract a fair share of it
>> Even if it is the Harvard Business School definition and points at
>> monetary reward proportionate to the (much bigger) value created for
>> customers (users), I think it applies. CouchDB developers create value for
>> users, for which they are rewarded in more than economical ways. Reward is
>> in the end proportionate to the value created for external parties.
>> 2) the internally oriented:
>> Align resources to meed customer needs
>> This is why it is so important to have target groups and distribution
>> channels in mind. CouchDB has more than one target group, reducing it to
>> the core developers themselves in a “I do what inspires me” is of course
>> the extreme, but even reducing the target group to developers with a
>> specific skill set is a dramatic choice, as is reducing the target group to
>> developers at large, since they are often not the most influential decision
>> makers in the selection of technology. When a developer suggests a
>> technology to a customer or a management team they will be looking at the
>> challenge of recruiting people as one of their first concerns.
>> Imagine the developer who says CouchDB seems like the most promising
>> NoSql option, and his non-developer peers do this:
>> <, redis,
>> mongodb&date=1/2009 73m&cmpt=q&tz=>
>> Wouldn’t it be nice if a million young developers were playing with the
>> technology in a way that recruited another million and those two millions
>> recruited another two millions and….
>> <, couch app, react.js,
>> angular.js&date=1/2009 73m&cmpt=q&tz=>
>> What would it take?
>> You are spot-on re Couch apps here, Jan :
>>> On 11 May 2015, at 18:53, Jan Lehnardt <> wrote:
>>> FWIW, I don’t think there’d be massive changes, just some rearrangements
>>> and some additions and some cuts and mostly story telling on our various
>>> media outlets.
>> What is stopping us right now, is a misconception of what marketing
>> actually is.
>> Marketing is much more than promotion -- like language is much more than
>> speaking French or writing in C. It is fundamentally about 2-way
>> communication with the audience you choose.
>> I am not looking for a Wozniak/Jobs or Straubel/Musk kind of balance
>> between the developer and marketing discipline.
>> Jan, your “can play a role” through “figuring out the story” is more than
>> enough for me, but I don’t see the point in contributing if the PMC keeps
>> up the policing against discussions about features.
>>  marketing@ can play a role in defining the features of CouchDB through
>>>> the figuring out the story of CouchDB.
>> The best part of your take on this is that it is not a one-way street
>> from communicators to developers or vice versa, which seems to be where the
>> present misconception is rooted. There needs to be certain portion of
>> mutual respect between at least those two disciplines for marketing to
>> happen. Defining features and figuring out the story is an iterative,
>> dialogue-based process, where starting in one end is not better than
>> starting in the other.
>> Johs
> --
> In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
> In practice, there is.   .... Yogi Berra

Johs Ensby
Business to Web AS

Office: Kirkegt. 5, N-0153 Oslo
Phone: + 47 22700 007
Mobil: + 47 46 83 79 86

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