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From Jan Lehnardt <...@apache.org>
Subject Re: New motto?
Date Thu, 20 Nov 2014 20:28:06 GMT
Decidedly no comma in the proposed version.

Best
Jan
--

> On 20.11.2014, at 17:58, Joan Touzet <wohali@apache.org> wrote:
> 
> +1 to "Data, wherever you need it." though I think I prefer it with the comma.
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jan Lehnardt" <jan@apache.org>
> To: marketing@couchdb.apache.org
> Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2014 5:25:39 PM
> Subject: Re: New motto?
> 
> 
>> On 20 Nov 2014, at 16:24 , Mike Broberg <mbroberg@us.ibm.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Just some ideas -- if only to kick this thread back up when people have returned
from Apachecon Europe :P
>> - Data that moves
>> (from a short doc that Diana Thayer wrote: http://docs.cloudant.com/guides/moving-clusters.html)
>> - Data, with all the right moves
>> - Set your data in motion
>> - The freedom to move
>> (a basic human right: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights#Freedom_of_movement)
>> - Data that moves. Data that's freed.
>> - Your data, wherever you need it
> 
> Funny, on our way to ApacheCon EU last Saturday, Noah and I came up with
> 
> “Data wherever you need it.” — which I still think is succinct, neat, captures
both the mobile and the big-data case, isn’t too convoluted and totally memorable.
> 
> Sleeping on this a couple of nights, I really like it :)
> 
>    CouchDB
>    Data wherever you need it.
> 
> Best
> Jan
> --
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> Maybe they're not inspiring enough, lol. Digging all y'all's ideas. --Mike
>> --
>> Mike Broberg | IBM Cloudant | 200 State Street, Boston, MA 02109 | mbroberg@us.ibm.com
| (617) 299-1409 Google Voice
>> --
>> 
>> Noah Slater ---11/07/2014 02:51:33 PM---Again: WHY are we all building this db with
a sync protocol? What's the problem we're trying to solv
>> 
>> From:    Noah Slater <nslater@apache.org>
>> To:    Noah Slater <nslater@apache.org>
>> Cc:    "marketing@couchdb.apache.org" <marketing@couchdb.apache.org>
>> Date:    11/07/2014 02:51 PM
>> Subject:    Re: New motto?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Again: WHY are we all building this db with a sync protocol? What's
>> the problem we're trying to solve? The answer to that is our marketing
>> pitch.
>> 
>>> On 7 November 2014 20:50, Noah Slater <nslater@apache.org> wrote:
>>> Just to cover some old ground here: but I'd like to stay away from
>>> "replicate" or "sync" in our primary messaging.
>>> 
>>> Remember:
>>> 
>>> - Why? -- what's our purpose, our goal, our shared values?
>>> - How? -- replicate/sync
>>> - What? -- HTTP, JSON, MapReduce, Erlang
>>> 
>>> Our slogan (which we could lead with on our website) should
>>> communicate that value. Which is why I'm reaching for something like,
>>> we want to liberate your data. How are we going to do that? By
>>> building the world's best data store with the world's best sync
>>> protocol. And we're gonna do that with HTTP, JSON, MapReduce, Erlang,
>>> etc.
>>> 
>>> Do you see how the narrative could flow on the homepage? Imagine each
>>> stage as a visibly separate section.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 7 November 2014 18:41, Nick Pavlica <linicks@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> All,
>>>>  As with the logo, I fully agree that the motto needs to be changed.  I
>>>> have never been a fan of the "relax" slogan, and have just tried to ignore
>>>> it.  As I think about it, I wounder if we really need a motto at all.  The
>>>> really hard thing when selecting a motto for something like CouchDB is that
>>>> can mean something different to everyone.  However, if there is one
>>>> strength that CouchDB has as a main differentiator from other databases is
>>>> it's syncing/replication capabilities.
>>>> 
>>>> Regards,
>>>> -- Nick Pavlica
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Fri Nov 07 2014 at 9:58:26 AM Joan Touzet <wohali@apache.org>
wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> FYI I recommend reading:
>>>>> 
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raised_fist
>>>>> 
>>>>> for a history of the political implications of that logo.
>>>>> 
>>>>> As to Alex's comment, I like the riff on the French national motto
>>>>> of freedom, equality and brotherhood (Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité).
>>>>> Worth experimenting a bit more there.
>>>>> 
>>>>> -Joan
>>>>> 
>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> From: "Alexander Shorin" <kxepal@gmail.com>
>>>>> To: marketing@couchdb.apache.org
>>>>> Cc: "Joan Touzet" <wohali@apache.org>, "Sean Barclay" <sean@cloudant.com>
>>>>> Sent: Friday, November 7, 2014 11:50:11 AM
>>>>> Subject: Re: New motto?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think "Liberate" is good one for some Open Data project or toolset
>>>>> to work on it, but not for CouchDB which is a database in the first
>>>>> place. As for me, my first association with "liberate" was "libre ->
>>>>> libreoffice -> wtf", may be because this is rare word for me.  If
we
>>>>> want (do we?) to focus on replication / data sync everywhere feature
>>>>> then the one thing comes to my mind. If anyone still remember this
>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E661isduPy8 there was one consonant to
>>>>> "liberate" word - "replicate". I think replicate more clear and
>>>>> explicitly defines the idea of "free to share your data, free to sync
>>>>> it with whatever they want".
>>>>> 
>>>>> "CouchDB. Replicate." or even "CouchDB. Liberate. Replicate." (yo).
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> ,,,^..^,,,
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 6:56 PM, Noah Slater <nslater@apache.org>
wrote:
>>>>>> Wow, yeah.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> What do others thing about using this word? "Liberate"? I think it
has
>>>>>> the right mixture of connotations and meanings
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 5 November 2014 23:50, Joan Touzet <wohali@apache.org>
wrote:
>>>>>>> Worth mentioning that Google has the Data Liberation Front team.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Data_Liberation_Front
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Interesting (and rather provocative!) logo there.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -Joan
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>>>> From: "Noah Slater" <nslater@apache.org>
>>>>>>> To: marketing@couchdb.apache.org, "Javier Candeira" <
>>>>> javier@candeira.com>
>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, November 5, 2014 12:52:05 PM
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: New motto?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> So, I just mentioned on dev@, but one of the angles I was thinking
>>>>> about was:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> - Liberate your data
>>>>>>> - Free your data
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Perhaps with "The database that..." before either.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I think this "liberate" idea taps intot the core of what I think
our
>>>>>>> "why?" is. We all seem to have the shared goal of wanting to
help
>>>>>>> people liberate their data, in terms of being able to move it
wherever
>>>>>>> they want, work on it how they want. Our sync/replication is
really
>>>>>>> only the implementation ("how?") of that goal.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> "Liberate" as a word, and the associations that go with it, also
taps
>>>>>>> into a growing movement of indie developers who are trying to
move
>>>>>>> away from closed data silos and corporate multinationals being
in
>>>>>>> control of massive amounts of user data.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> It echoes things like Unhoasted, OfflineFirst, POSSE and PESOS.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On 1 November 2014 03:24, Javier Candeira <javier@candeira.com>
wrote:
>>>>>>>> Just brrainstorming, I think the "sync" is the biggest selling
point
>>>>>>>> of CouchDB. The fact that it doesn't lose data is obviously
good
>>>>>>>> (cough cough MongoDB cough), but you can hardly advertise
"we don't
>>>>>>>> lose your data" in your slogan, that should be a given. You
don't
>>>>>>>> advertise youghourt as "0% cyanide" either.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Another strong point is the ecosystem, with TouchDB/Couchbase
>>>>>>>> Lite/PouchDB leading the charge.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> So I would like to see a slogan along the lines that express
the
>>>>>>>> concept of "A database that gets the web, mobile and sync"
(not a
>>>>>>>> proposal, just a suggestionf or a message.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Or, now in the terrain of slogans, mirroring the famous Dropbox
"A
>>>>>>>> Folder. On several computers. That syncs", we could say...
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> "Your data, on the web and on your device, always in sync."
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Though that seems too specific, and getting a bit into Hoodie
>>>>> territory.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> "CouchDB syncs your data to wherever you need to use it".
Hmm, it's
>>>>>>>> more than just sync.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> As I said above, this is just an idea dump, inspired by Noah's
great
>>>>>>>> reframing of the problem.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> J
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 9:44 PM, Jan Lehnardt <jan@apache.org>
wrote:
>>>>>>>>> Thanks Noah!
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> this is where we need to be heading.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> As related inspiration, see these storytelling rules
by Pixar. Not all
>>>>>>>>> apply to what we want to do, but pretend CouchDB is a
character and we
>>>>>>>>> want to tell its story: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/
>>>>> 2012/07/30/pixar-storytelling_n_1718854.html
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Best
>>>>>>>>> Jan
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> On 30 Oct 2014, at 21:16 , Noah Slater <nslater@apache.org>
wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Okay, so a while ago we had this discussion about
what CouchDB's
>>>>> "why"
>>>>>>>>>> was. i.e. What's our purpose.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> There are three questions we can answer, at various
points in our
>>>>>>>>>> marketing material:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Why? - What's our shared goal?
>>>>>>>>>> How? - How are we working towards it?
>>>>>>>>>> What? - What are the particulars of that approach.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Most projects get this the wrong way round. In fact,
we have done. We
>>>>>>>>>> tell you about JSON and HTTP and whatever up front.
That's the what.
>>>>>>>>>> It's not interesting.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> We've had suggestions to use the motto "The database
that
>>>>>>>>>> replicates/syncs". That's better. But this is the
how. We're telling
>>>>>>>>>> you how we're working towards our shared goal. Still
no explicit
>>>>> goal.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Now. You look at Apple, and their motto was "think
different". It was
>>>>>>>>>> always about challenging the status quo and putting
the user first.
>>>>>>>>>> They just happened to be doing that by building a
computer. (Now a
>>>>>>>>>> phone, a watch, etc, etc...)
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> The thing about stating your values up front is that
you attract
>>>>>>>>>> people with the same values. They "believe" in you
and what you're
>>>>>>>>>> doing in a very emotional way.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Compare this to Dell. You know anybody who's passionate
about Dell?
>>>>>>>>>> "Hey, we build powerful computers. Buy one." Okay
sure, maybe. But
>>>>> I'm
>>>>>>>>>> not gonna *feel* anything about it.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> So, let's talk about Couch.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> I think that our core value is giving people the
power to do what
>>>>> they
>>>>>>>>>> want with their data. To keep it where ever they
want. To move it
>>>>>>>>>> where ever they want. And for this to be as easy
as possible.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Here's a sample formulation
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> "We want to put your data in your hands. We're gonna
do that by
>>>>>>>>>> making it easy to move your anywhere you want. We
just happen to
>>>>>>>>>> building a database."
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> arkos has a great slogan: "Your data, your rules"
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> This is where we need to be heading. This isn't about
syncing. This
>>>>> is
>>>>>>>>>> about giving people the power to move their data
into and out of
>>>>>>>>>> whatever environment, platform, and device they want
to.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Data autonomy?
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Some other notes:
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Mikeal Rogers said to me that after working with
Couch, he started to
>>>>>>>>>> take it for granted that getting data back out of
a database should
>>>>> be
>>>>>>>>>> as easy as putting it in. (But apparently this isn't
so) He said this
>>>>>>>>>> was a unique feature of CouchDB.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Tom Dale once said something about the need to share
and distribute
>>>>>>>>>> data. No silos. Host individual sites in your own
server. Can't
>>>>>>>>>> remember the context, just have it in my notes.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> But this ties into the IndieWebCamp concept of POSSE.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> And also dovetails with OfflineFirst, things like
unhosted, and the
>>>>>>>>>> growing movement of people who want  local data ownership.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Also think about the fact that CouchDB is more like
Git than
>>>>>>>>>> PostgreSQL. (Thanks Jan, for the analogy.) Decentralised
data,
>>>>>>>>>> workflows, syncing, etc. What is this about really?
It's about
>>>>>>>>>> enabling decentralised data management. Ties into
the same concept.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> Access your data anywhere
>>>>>>>>>> Access your data offline
>>>>>>>>>> Decentralised data management
>>>>>>>>>> Puts you in control of your own data
>>>>>>>>>> Local data ownership
>>>>>>>>>> Grants you data autonomy
>>>>>>>>>> Your data, your rules
>>>>>>>>>> Puts your data back in your hands
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> ^ Not slogans, just prompts.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> What's our why? If we find that, we'll have our slogan.
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 19:45, Andy Ellicott <andy@cloudant.com>
wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> I think I read something recently that there's
more mobile than web
>>>>> app development happening these days, so "web" might end up sounding
>>>>> outdated.
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Random input:
>>>>>>>>>>> "Synchronicity" is a word we're using to differentiate
>>>>> couchdb-style dbs from others. Feel free to reuse or take inspiration
from
>>>>> that...or not :)
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Andy
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Oct 30, 2014, at 2:35 PM, Alexander Shorin
<kxepal@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> Will repeat myself on IRC:
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> "A database for the web" isn't good one since
PouchDB is eventually
>>>>>>>>>>>> more "database for the web" than CouchDB
now.
>>>>>>>>>>>> We need something more fresh, unique and
collision safe as like as
>>>>>>>>>>>> "Time to relax!" was - it's hard to associate
any other database
>>>>> with
>>>>>>>>>>>> the same motto.
>>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>> ,,,^..^,,,
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 9:01 PM, Joan
Touzet <joant@lrtw.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Coming out of the logo discussion, it
seems 2.0 may be the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> right time to consider a new motto, replacing
"Time to relax."
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> PouchDB is "The database that syncs."
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On http://couchdb.apache.org/ today,
"A database for the web"
>>>>>>>>>>>>> is the most prominent motto, bigger than
"Relax."
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jan and I will be on stage in 3 weeks
in Budapest to present
>>>>>>>>>>>>> plans for CouchDB 2.0. I'd love to make
an announcement of a
>>>>>>>>>>>>> new motto there, even if we don't have
a new logo (or consensus
>>>>>>>>>>>>> on one) by that time.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Thoughts, suggestions, comments?
>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>>>>> -Joan
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>> Noah Slater
>>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Noah Slater
>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Noah Slater
>>>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Noah Slater
>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Noah Slater
>> https://twitter.com/nslater
> 

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