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From Noah Slater <nsla...@apache.org>
Subject Re: New motto?
Date Fri, 07 Nov 2014 19:51:26 GMT
Again: WHY are we all building this db with a sync protocol? What's
the problem we're trying to solve? The answer to that is our marketing
pitch.

On 7 November 2014 20:50, Noah Slater <nslater@apache.org> wrote:
> Just to cover some old ground here: but I'd like to stay away from
> "replicate" or "sync" in our primary messaging.
>
> Remember:
>
> - Why? -- what's our purpose, our goal, our shared values?
> - How? -- replicate/sync
> - What? -- HTTP, JSON, MapReduce, Erlang
>
> Our slogan (which we could lead with on our website) should
> communicate that value. Which is why I'm reaching for something like,
> we want to liberate your data. How are we going to do that? By
> building the world's best data store with the world's best sync
> protocol. And we're gonna do that with HTTP, JSON, MapReduce, Erlang,
> etc.
>
> Do you see how the narrative could flow on the homepage? Imagine each
> stage as a visibly separate section.
>
>
>
> On 7 November 2014 18:41, Nick Pavlica <linicks@gmail.com> wrote:
>> All,
>>   As with the logo, I fully agree that the motto needs to be changed.  I
>> have never been a fan of the "relax" slogan, and have just tried to ignore
>> it.  As I think about it, I wounder if we really need a motto at all.  The
>> really hard thing when selecting a motto for something like CouchDB is that
>> can mean something different to everyone.  However, if there is one
>> strength that CouchDB has as a main differentiator from other databases is
>> it's syncing/replication capabilities.
>>
>> Regards,
>> -- Nick Pavlica
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri Nov 07 2014 at 9:58:26 AM Joan Touzet <wohali@apache.org> wrote:
>>
>>> FYI I recommend reading:
>>>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raised_fist
>>>
>>> for a history of the political implications of that logo.
>>>
>>> As to Alex's comment, I like the riff on the French national motto
>>> of freedom, equality and brotherhood (Liberté, Égalité, Fraternité).
>>> Worth experimenting a bit more there.
>>>
>>> -Joan
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: "Alexander Shorin" <kxepal@gmail.com>
>>> To: marketing@couchdb.apache.org
>>> Cc: "Joan Touzet" <wohali@apache.org>, "Sean Barclay" <sean@cloudant.com>
>>> Sent: Friday, November 7, 2014 11:50:11 AM
>>> Subject: Re: New motto?
>>>
>>> I think "Liberate" is good one for some Open Data project or toolset
>>> to work on it, but not for CouchDB which is a database in the first
>>> place. As for me, my first association with "liberate" was "libre ->
>>> libreoffice -> wtf", may be because this is rare word for me.  If we
>>> want (do we?) to focus on replication / data sync everywhere feature
>>> then the one thing comes to my mind. If anyone still remember this
>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E661isduPy8 there was one consonant to
>>> "liberate" word - "replicate". I think replicate more clear and
>>> explicitly defines the idea of "free to share your data, free to sync
>>> it with whatever they want".
>>>
>>> "CouchDB. Replicate." or even "CouchDB. Liberate. Replicate." (yo).
>>>
>>> --
>>> ,,,^..^,,,
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 6:56 PM, Noah Slater <nslater@apache.org> wrote:
>>> > Wow, yeah.
>>> >
>>> > What do others thing about using this word? "Liberate"? I think it has
>>> > the right mixture of connotations and meanings
>>> >
>>> > On 5 November 2014 23:50, Joan Touzet <wohali@apache.org> wrote:
>>> >> Worth mentioning that Google has the Data Liberation Front team.
>>> >>
>>> >> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_Data_Liberation_Front
>>> >>
>>> >> Interesting (and rather provocative!) logo there.
>>> >>
>>> >> -Joan
>>> >>
>>> >> ----- Original Message -----
>>> >> From: "Noah Slater" <nslater@apache.org>
>>> >> To: marketing@couchdb.apache.org, "Javier Candeira" <
>>> javier@candeira.com>
>>> >> Sent: Wednesday, November 5, 2014 12:52:05 PM
>>> >> Subject: Re: New motto?
>>> >>
>>> >> So, I just mentioned on dev@, but one of the angles I was thinking
>>> about was:
>>> >>
>>> >> - Liberate your data
>>> >> - Free your data
>>> >>
>>> >> Perhaps with "The database that..." before either.
>>> >>
>>> >> I think this "liberate" idea taps intot the core of what I think our
>>> >> "why?" is. We all seem to have the shared goal of wanting to help
>>> >> people liberate their data, in terms of being able to move it wherever
>>> >> they want, work on it how they want. Our sync/replication is really
>>> >> only the implementation ("how?") of that goal.
>>> >>
>>> >> "Liberate" as a word, and the associations that go with it, also taps
>>> >> into a growing movement of indie developers who are trying to move
>>> >> away from closed data silos and corporate multinationals being in
>>> >> control of massive amounts of user data.
>>> >>
>>> >> It echoes things like Unhoasted, OfflineFirst, POSSE and PESOS.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> On 1 November 2014 03:24, Javier Candeira <javier@candeira.com>
wrote:
>>> >>> Just brrainstorming, I think the "sync" is the biggest selling point
>>> >>> of CouchDB. The fact that it doesn't lose data is obviously good
>>> >>> (cough cough MongoDB cough), but you can hardly advertise "we don't
>>> >>> lose your data" in your slogan, that should be a given. You don't
>>> >>> advertise youghourt as "0% cyanide" either.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Another strong point is the ecosystem, with TouchDB/Couchbase
>>> >>> Lite/PouchDB leading the charge.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> So I would like to see a slogan along the lines that express the
>>> >>> concept of "A database that gets the web, mobile and sync" (not
a
>>> >>> proposal, just a suggestionf or a message.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Or, now in the terrain of slogans, mirroring the famous Dropbox
"A
>>> >>> Folder. On several computers. That syncs", we could say...
>>> >>>
>>> >>> "Your data, on the web and on your device, always in sync."
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Though that seems too specific, and getting a bit into Hoodie
>>> territory.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> "CouchDB syncs your data to wherever you need to use it". Hmm, it's
>>> >>> more than just sync.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> As I said above, this is just an idea dump, inspired by Noah's great
>>> >>> reframing of the problem.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> J
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Fri, Oct 31, 2014 at 9:44 PM, Jan Lehnardt <jan@apache.org>
wrote:
>>> >>>> Thanks Noah!
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> this is where we need to be heading.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> As related inspiration, see these storytelling rules by Pixar.
Not all
>>> >>>> apply to what we want to do, but pretend CouchDB is a character
and we
>>> >>>> want to tell its story: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/
>>> 2012/07/30/pixar-storytelling_n_1718854.html
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Best
>>> >>>> Jan
>>> >>>> --
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>> On 30 Oct 2014, at 21:16 , Noah Slater <nslater@apache.org>
wrote:
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Okay, so a while ago we had this discussion about what CouchDB's
>>> "why"
>>> >>>>> was. i.e. What's our purpose.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> There are three questions we can answer, at various points
in our
>>> >>>>> marketing material:
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Why? - What's our shared goal?
>>> >>>>> How? - How are we working towards it?
>>> >>>>> What? - What are the particulars of that approach.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Most projects get this the wrong way round. In fact, we
have done. We
>>> >>>>> tell you about JSON and HTTP and whatever up front. That's
the what.
>>> >>>>> It's not interesting.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> We've had suggestions to use the motto "The database that
>>> >>>>> replicates/syncs". That's better. But this is the how. We're
telling
>>> >>>>> you how we're working towards our shared goal. Still no
explicit
>>> goal.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Now. You look at Apple, and their motto was "think different".
It was
>>> >>>>> always about challenging the status quo and putting the
user first.
>>> >>>>> They just happened to be doing that by building a computer.
(Now a
>>> >>>>> phone, a watch, etc, etc...)
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> The thing about stating your values up front is that you
attract
>>> >>>>> people with the same values. They "believe" in you and what
you're
>>> >>>>> doing in a very emotional way.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Compare this to Dell. You know anybody who's passionate
about Dell?
>>> >>>>> "Hey, we build powerful computers. Buy one." Okay sure,
maybe. But
>>> I'm
>>> >>>>> not gonna *feel* anything about it.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> So, let's talk about Couch.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> I think that our core value is giving people the power to
do what
>>> they
>>> >>>>> want with their data. To keep it where ever they want. To
move it
>>> >>>>> where ever they want. And for this to be as easy as possible.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Here's a sample formulation
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> "We want to put your data in your hands. We're gonna do
that by
>>> >>>>> making it easy to move your anywhere you want. We just happen
to
>>> >>>>> building a database."
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> arkos has a great slogan: "Your data, your rules"
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> This is where we need to be heading. This isn't about syncing.
This
>>> is
>>> >>>>> about giving people the power to move their data into and
out of
>>> >>>>> whatever environment, platform, and device they want to.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Data autonomy?
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Some other notes:
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Mikeal Rogers said to me that after working with Couch,
he started to
>>> >>>>> take it for granted that getting data back out of a database
should
>>> be
>>> >>>>> as easy as putting it in. (But apparently this isn't so)
He said this
>>> >>>>> was a unique feature of CouchDB.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Tom Dale once said something about the need to share and
distribute
>>> >>>>> data. No silos. Host individual sites in your own server.
Can't
>>> >>>>> remember the context, just have it in my notes.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> But this ties into the IndieWebCamp concept of POSSE.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> http://indiewebcamp.com/POSSE
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> And also dovetails with OfflineFirst, things like unhosted,
and the
>>> >>>>> growing movement of people who want  local data ownership.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Also think about the fact that CouchDB is more like Git
than
>>> >>>>> PostgreSQL. (Thanks Jan, for the analogy.) Decentralised
data,
>>> >>>>> workflows, syncing, etc. What is this about really? It's
about
>>> >>>>> enabling decentralised data management. Ties into the same
concept.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> Access your data anywhere
>>> >>>>> Access your data offline
>>> >>>>> Decentralised data management
>>> >>>>> Puts you in control of your own data
>>> >>>>> Local data ownership
>>> >>>>> Grants you data autonomy
>>> >>>>> Your data, your rules
>>> >>>>> Puts your data back in your hands
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> ^ Not slogans, just prompts.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> What's our why? If we find that, we'll have our slogan.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> On 30 October 2014 19:45, Andy Ellicott <andy@cloudant.com>
wrote:
>>> >>>>>> I think I read something recently that there's more
mobile than web
>>> app development happening these days, so "web" might end up sounding
>>> outdated.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Random input:
>>> >>>>>> "Synchronicity" is a word we're using to differentiate
>>> couchdb-style dbs from others. Feel free to reuse or take inspiration from
>>> that...or not :)
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Andy
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> On Oct 30, 2014, at 2:35 PM, Alexander Shorin <kxepal@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> Will repeat myself on IRC:
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> "A database for the web" isn't good one since PouchDB
is eventually
>>> >>>>>>> more "database for the web" than CouchDB now.
>>> >>>>>>> We need something more fresh, unique and collision
safe as like as
>>> >>>>>>> "Time to relax!" was - it's hard to associate any
other database
>>> with
>>> >>>>>>> the same motto.
>>> >>>>>>> --
>>> >>>>>>> ,,,^..^,,,
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>> On Thu, Oct 30, 2014 at 9:01 PM, Joan Touzet
<joant@lrtw.org>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>> Coming out of the logo discussion, it seems
2.0 may be the
>>> >>>>>>>> right time to consider a new motto, replacing
"Time to relax."
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>> PouchDB is "The database that syncs."
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>> On http://couchdb.apache.org/ today, "A database
for the web"
>>> >>>>>>>> is the most prominent motto, bigger than "Relax."
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>> Jan and I will be on stage in 3 weeks in Budapest
to present
>>> >>>>>>>> plans for CouchDB 2.0. I'd love to make an announcement
of a
>>> >>>>>>>> new motto there, even if we don't have a new
logo (or consensus
>>> >>>>>>>> on one) by that time.
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>> Thoughts, suggestions, comments?
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>> -Joan
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> --
>>> >>>>> Noah Slater
>>> >>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>>> >>>>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> --
>>> >> Noah Slater
>>> >> https://twitter.com/nslater
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Noah Slater
>>> > https://twitter.com/nslater
>>>
>
>
>
> --
> Noah Slater
> https://twitter.com/nslater



-- 
Noah Slater
https://twitter.com/nslater

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