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From Jan Lehnardt <...@apache.org>
Subject Re: AdvocateHub rewards
Date Mon, 10 Nov 2014 12:49:02 GMT
Just for the record, I replied only here because at the time I had
time to do so, the thread had been moved on from dev@.

Best
Jan
--

> On 31 Oct 2014, at 18:38 , Noah Slater <nslater@apache.org> wrote:
> 
> So, I actually brought up the idea of dedicating the release on a dev@
> thread. The only people to respond there were +1 on the idea. But Jan
> and Lena are -1 one on the idea here and have requested we put this
> reward on hold. I still think it would be a good idea, but I'm happy
> to put the idea on the back burner. I'll also table the "name the
> news" idea. We can revisit in the future.
> 
> Thanks for the feedback folks.
> 
> On 31 October 2014 14:15, Andy Wenk <andywenk@apache.org> wrote:
>> On 31 October 2014 13:30, Jan Lehnardt <jan@apache.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>>> On 31 Oct 2014, at 09:25 , Andy Wenk <andywenk@apache.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Jan,
>>>> 
>>>> this is a very fair point. But I think it could be avoided if we add sth.
>>>> like "Thanks to all the awesome work of the contributors, this release is
>>>> again so cool ..." If there is a very big part created by one person, why
>>>> not name him also?
>>> 
>>> Or her. It puts focus on things that are shippable. It shadows things that
>>> go on in the background, that are essential, say JIRA triaging or Pull
>>> Request Reviews. Someone might spend more time on that than someone else
>>> with a big new feature and they wouldn’t get credit. I’d like to avoid
>>> that,
>>> and I think we have plenty of good incentives. It’s not that we are at a
>>> loss as to what to offer people.
>>> 
>> 
>> sry - for sure her also. I do understand this. Again, dedicating a  release
>> does not have to do anything with value compared to other contributions.
>> But I see the point that this could be viewed from the outside in that way.
>> What would be wrong.
>> 
>> 
>>>> But on the other hand, we have the contributors list and
>>>> the people earn respect because they can be found in the commit history.
>>>> The developers working on CouchDB do it, because they believe in the
>>>> project and want to help creating awesome software. Not to see their name
>>>> in any special announcement. At least, that's the point for me.
>>> 
>>> Exactly, we should value people because they are committed to CouchDB,
>>> regardless of their contribution. Highlighting some people in the community
>>> creates a disparity that can have very adverse effects on a community.
>>> 
>> 
>> That is very true. You are right.
>> 
>> 
>>>> So I can understand your (and Lena's) concerns but I personally do not
>>> see
>>>> this a s such a big issue.
>>> 
>>> Both Lena and I had some experience with this this year in a community of
>>> six people and avoiding a mix of “shipping culture” and “hero worship”
and
>>> instead a focus on people made all the difference for us.
>>> 
>> 
>> sorry to hear that. I would be more than sad if the outcome of this
>> marketing idea would be something like this. With this knowledge, I am
>> starting to be convinced, that the idea could result in problems for the
>> community. I am strongly against taking this risk.
>> 
>> 
>>>> Maybe we could make a quick questionnaire (Google form thingy?) on dev@
>>>> to get a feeling for this?
>>> 
>>> Why is there a need to push this through? We have plenty of rewards for
>>> AdvocateHub. Let’s get that out and see how it goes. If we need to dial
>>> up the reward-meter, let’s get back together and think about what we can
>>> offer.
>>> 
>> 
>> Because it is good to know how we can rise the reward-meter from the
>> beginning. That was the idea. Keep it open and learn what the community
>> thinks about this. But ....
>> 
>> 
>> I hear you! I am now at the point top agree, that we should start with the
>> other rewards. Thanls for taking the time to outline this very clearly <3 :)
>> 
>> 
>>> Best
>>> Jan
>>> --
>>> 
>> 
>> So I am -0 with the idea to dedicate releases at this moment.
>> 
>> Cheers
>> 
>> Andy
>> 
>>> On 30 October 2014 17:43, Jan Lehnardt <jan@apache.org> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 30 Oct 2014, at 17:37 , Noah Slater <nslater@apache.org>
wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Jan/Lena, could you expand a little on why you don't like the idea
of
>>>>>> dedicating a release?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I fear that someone who built a significant feature for a release would
>>>>> feel they need recognition as well, but they don’t because they aren’t
>>>>> reflected in this (AFAIK). If we get into dedicated specific code-
>>>>> contributors, where do we do the cutoff? What about people who not write
>>>>> features, but review every pull request? It gets messy fast. I don’t
>>> want
>>>>> to get into that. Plus there are plenty of great rewards already and
I’m
>>>>> sure once this is rolling, we will think of a lot more, too :)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Best
>>>>> Jan
>>>>> --
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I'm thinking it would be a small para at the bottom of the release
>>>>>> announcement, something like this:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> "This release is dedicated to the following advocates as a thank
you
>>>>>> for helping grow the community: Alice, Bob, Chris"
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Perhaps we could even add some sort of clarification as to why they're
>>>>>> being thanked.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Lena, for naming the release: we can exercise editorial control by
>>>>>> simply saying "that's not gonna fly, pick a different name." Would
>>>>>> that allay your concerns?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On 30 October 2014 17:11, Lena Reinhard <lena@thehoodiefirm.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> Also like all of them, except
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> - Have a release dedicated to you
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I'd rather avoid that, as it sets the reward at a wrong place,
imo.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> - Name the weekly news
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> My main issue with this is that I fear running into discussions
what
>>> is
>>>>> appropriate as a name (in terms of our bylaws and CoC (which wouldn't
>>> have
>>>>> to be a discussion then at all), but also in terms of marketing.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Rest looks great from my side.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 30 Oct 2014, at 16:51, Jan Lehnardt <jan@apache.org>
wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> I like them al except “Have a release dedicated to you”
:)
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On 30 Oct 2014, at 16:41 , Noah Slater <nslater@apache.org>
wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> I'd like to set up the following rewards. Please review.
If nobody
>>>>>>>>> objects to this email, I will assume consensus.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Lena, a few of these relate to the weekly news, so I'm
hoping you
>>> can
>>>>>>>>> look it over specifically in case you have any objections
or
>>>>>>>>> suggestions for improvement!
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> - #FollowFriday
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> We include the advocate in a #FollowFriday tweet sent
from @CouchDB.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> - Individual Twitter thank you
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> We post a tweet from @CouchDB, individually thanking
the advocate.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> - Thank you in the weekly news
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> We include the advocate's name on a list of people we're
thanking in
>>>>>>>>> the next weekly news. (This would appear at the bottom
of the post.)
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> - Individual profile in the weekly news
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> We add a short para, no longer than a tweet (perhaps?)
to the bottom
>>>>>>>>> of the weekly news, in a special thanks section (or similar).
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> - Get featured on the website
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Join the list of featured advocates on our main homepage.
We'd keep
>>> X
>>>>>>>>> advocates here, removing people off as new people join.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> (This actually doubles as recruitment for new advocates.)
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> - Enter the Hall of Fame
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The advocates name is added to the ADVOCATES file in
the root of the
>>>>>>>>> main CouchDB repository.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> - Have a release dedicated to you
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The advocates name is added to a list of people that
our next
>>> release
>>>>>>>>> is dedicated to. This will appear at the bottom of the
release
>>>>>>>>> announcement.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> - Name the weekly news
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> The advocate gets to pick a fun name for the next weekly
news. This
>>> is
>>>>>>>>> included at the top of the weekly news in the style of
"aka the X
>>>>>>>>> update" or similar.
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> (This is just a small selection of the rewards, focusing
here on
>>>>>>>>> recognition. I have other ideas, but I don't want to
swap you.)
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Noah Slater
>>>>>>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Noah Slater
>>>>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Andy Wenk
>>>> Hamburg - Germany
>>>> RockIt!
>>>> 
>>>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>>>> 
>>>> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Andy Wenk
>> Hamburg - Germany
>> RockIt!
>> 
>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>> 
>> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Noah Slater
> https://twitter.com/nslater


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