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From Noah Slater <nsla...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Cloudant and CouchDB branding
Date Thu, 12 Jun 2014 15:51:18 GMT
Good stuff Andy. I would be super interested in seeing some of the
design ideas and providing feedback. Perhaps others on this list who
care about branding as much as I do would be interested too. Is there
a way for that to be done (in a private forum of course)?

On 12 June 2014 17:49, Andy Ellicott <aellicot@us.ibm.com> wrote:
> Hi Noah,
> No hard feelings :)
>
> Point taken on how we ought to publicize (via cloudant.com) our use of
> CouchDB. We're working on a new home page design...let me see what we can
> work in on the homepage and elsewhere.
>
>
>
> Andy Ellicott
> VP Marketing
> Cloudant.com, an IBM company
> 200 State Street
> Boston, MA  02109
> (m) +1 603 205 2804
>
>
>
>
> From:        Noah Slater <nslater@apache.org>
> To:        Andy Ellicott/Cambridge/IBM@IBMUS
> Cc:        "marketing@couchdb.apache.org" <marketing@couchdb.apache.org>,
> Noah Slater <nslater@apache.org>, "TheApacheFoundation ."
> <press@apache.org>, Sally Khudairi <sallykhudairi@yahoo.com>
> Date:        06/12/2014 11:43 AM
> Subject:        Re: Cloudant and CouchDB branding
> ________________________________
>
>
>
> Sally and I mentioned Couchbase first. :)
>
> Your comment concerns me though. I hope you don't think I am vilifying
> Cloudant? I was hoping to enter into a productive discussion about
> what we can do to strengthen both brands.
>
> Cloudant doesn't mention CouchDB on its homepage once. As a CouchDB
> platform, I think that's a very important mistake.
>
> Like I said, I see an opportunity here for Cloudant to help CouchDB
> with its brand. To strengthen the name of CouchDB through its
> association with IBM and Cloudant, the NoSQL platform provider.
>
> The first step I would make is to say, explicitly, on the homepage,
> that Cloudant is a CouchDB platform provider. But then, I'm not the VP
> Marketing for Cloudant, so my opinion doesn't count. ;) But it's a
> useful way to express my hopes.
>
> I received some responses from the reporter:
>
>> Not so: see 16 Top Platforms ubm.io/1gtHQla RT @nslater: If you were
>> covering, you’d mention Hadoop, not Cloudera or Hortonworks.
>
> https://twitter.com/DHenschen/status/477109298276073472
>
> To which I replied:
>
>> @DHenschen that is an article about platforms.
>> informationweek.com/big-data/big-d… is an article about databases. But
>> Cloudant is a platform for CouchDB.
>
> https://twitter.com/nslater/status/477111652765409282
>
> He also said:
>
>> Read comment mentioning CouchDB. Enterprises want support. RT @nslater:
>> thanks for the coverage of Cloudant, a CouchDB provider!
>
> https://twitter.com/DHenschen/status/477109967120781312
>
> To which I replied:
>
>> @DHenschen yup. Platforms are very important! But in an article about DBs
>> specifically, I was hoping to see a mention of CouchDB.
>
> https://twitter.com/nslater/status/477112011009327104
>
> I would ask: why did this happen? How did this reporter confuse
> Cloudant (as a database platform) with the database itself? And is
> there anything we can do to mitigate against this?
>
> On 12 June 2014 17:33, Andy Ellicott <aellicot@us.ibm.com> wrote:
>> Thanks Andy, I was wondering when someone was going to bring up Couchbase
>> on
>> this thread instead of villifying us!
>>
>> We hold no reluctance to mentioning CouchDB at all. We just stop short of
>> saying Cloudant = hosted CouchDB
>>
>> We're happy to continue to fund awareness raising via the community and
>> IBM
>> (and on our own). We're a bit focused on the process of getting integrated
>> into IBM at the moment. Hopefully we'll be able to come up for air soon
>> and
>> contribute more on the CouchDB marketing front. We can spare money easier
>> than we can spare people right now, if you've got ideas or need funding
>> for
>> marketing ideas (e.g., Lena's weekly reports), don't hesitate to ask..
>>
>>
>> Andy Ellicott
>> VP Marketing
>> Cloudant.com, an IBM company
>> 200 State Street
>> Boston, MA  02109
>> (m) +1 603 205 2804
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> From:        Andy Wenk <andywenk@apache.org>
>> To:        Sally Khudairi <sallykhudairi@yahoo.com>
>> Cc:        Noah Slater <nslater@apache.org>,
>> "marketing@couchdb.apache.org"
>> <marketing@couchdb.apache.org>, "TheApacheFoundation ." <press@apache.org>
>> Date:        06/12/2014 11:21 AM
>> Subject:        Re: Cloudant and CouchDB branding
>> ________________________________
>>
>>
>>
>> Noah and Sally,
>>
>> thanks for bringing this up. Yes it's frustrating. And let's not forget
>> about the existing confusion with Couchbase also. CouchDB is one of the
>> first NoSQL databases and still a plain open source project. Noah you have
>> often stated, that as a community existing out of volunteers, we don't
>> have
>> the power Couchbase or MongDB Inc has regarding marketing activities.
>>
>> I remember the email sent by Adam K. who asked, what IBM could do to help
>> Apache CouchDB. There we have one point: marketing and press presence.
>> Even
>> though Lena is already doing a great awesome job, we need a bigger lever
>> to
>> not sink among the other NoSQL databases.
>>
>> Thanks a lot for all your help. It's highly appreciated. Please let me
>> know
>> what I can do to help ...
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Andy
>>
>>
>> On 12 June 2014 17:11, Sally Khudairi <sallykhudairi@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks, Noah. I hear you. Believe me.
>>>
>>> I'm working with another PMC right now on finding a way to help TLPs with
>>> this issue.
>>>
>>> Just so you know, CouchDB is high on my awareness list. I actually
>>> pitched
>>> you guys to a reporter yesterday who had similar Cloudant/CouchDB
>>> confusion.
>>>
>>> Furthermore, the ASF Board is aware of the need and is in support of our
>>> finding a solution.
>>>
>>> Bear with us, but don't remain silent.
>>>
>>> -Sally
>>>
>>>
>>>   ------------------------------
>>>  *From:* Noah Slater <nslater@apache.org>
>>> *To:* "marketing@couchdb.apache.org" <marketing@couchdb.apache.org>
>>> *Cc:* TheApacheFoundation . <press@apache.org>
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, 12 June 2014, 11:08
>>> *Subject:* Cloudant and CouchDB branding
>>
>>>
>>> Hello marketing folks,
>>>
>>> Check out this list of 15 NoSQL databases to watch, posted by the
>>> Cloudant Twitter account:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> http://www.informationweek.com/big-data/big-data-analytics/16-nosql-newsql-databases-to-watch/d/d-id/1269559?image_number=1
>>
>>>
>>> It actually took me several minutes to spot that Cloudant was in that
>>> list. I had a draft tweet reply asking why it wasn't mentioned before
>>> I spotted it.
>>>
>>> The logo is about 66% the IBM logo, then 33% the Cloudant logo. Which
>>> is a bit weird, if you ask me. But there you go. That's Cloudant's
>>> issue, not ours.
>>>
>>> What I do take issue with is that in a list of 15 top NoSQL databases,
>>> CouchDB doesn't get a mention, but a company that packages up
>>> (admittedly, a fork of, at this point) CouchDB does. And it is
>>> Cloudant's name that gets press.
>>>
>>> We have:
>>>
>>> - MongoDB
>>> - Riak
>>> - Apache HBase
>>> - Cassandra
>>> - Cloudant
>>>
>>> One of those is not like the others. Anyone else see the problem with
>>> this?
>>>
>>> What can we do about it?
>>>
>>> The author of the article posted this tweet about it:
>>>
>>> https://twitter.com/DHenschen/status/477089827981377536
>>>
>>> I replied with two tweets:
>>>
>>> > @DHenschen thanks for the coverage of Cloudant, a CouchDB provider!
>>> > Just
>>> wondering why you don’t mention CouchDB specifically?
>>>
>>> https://twitter.com/nslater/status/477104465976512512
>>>
>>> > @DHenschen I imagine that if you were covering Hadoop, you’d mention
>>> Hadoop specifically, and not Cloudera or Hortonworks.
>>>
>>> https://twitter.com/nslater/status/477104509513396224
>>>
>>> I spoke to Jan about this before sending. Jan mentions that this is
>>> probably the result of Cloudant having a strong PR/AR game.
>>>
>>> We don't engage PR/AR at all. I'm wondering what we can do to change
>>> this. Because this article (while cool for Cloudant) makes me very
>>> sad.
>>>
>>> Sally, is there anything you can do to help us avoid this sort of
>>> situation in the future? I brand has really taken a beating in recent
>>> years, and stuff like this really does not help us at all.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> --
>>> Noah Slater
>>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Andy Wenk
>> Hamburg - Germany
>> RockIt!
>>
>> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>>
>> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Noah Slater
> https://twitter.com/nslater
>
>



-- 
Noah Slater
https://twitter.com/nslater

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