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From Noah Slater <nsla...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Cloudant and CouchDB branding
Date Thu, 12 Jun 2014 15:43:22 GMT
Sally and I mentioned Couchbase first. :)

Your comment concerns me though. I hope you don't think I am vilifying
Cloudant? I was hoping to enter into a productive discussion about
what we can do to strengthen both brands.

Cloudant doesn't mention CouchDB on its homepage once. As a CouchDB
platform, I think that's a very important mistake.

Like I said, I see an opportunity here for Cloudant to help CouchDB
with its brand. To strengthen the name of CouchDB through its
association with IBM and Cloudant, the NoSQL platform provider.

The first step I would make is to say, explicitly, on the homepage,
that Cloudant is a CouchDB platform provider. But then, I'm not the VP
Marketing for Cloudant, so my opinion doesn't count. ;) But it's a
useful way to express my hopes.

I received some responses from the reporter:

> Not so: see 16 Top Platforms ubm.io/1gtHQla RT @nslater: If you were covering, you’d
mention Hadoop, not Cloudera or Hortonworks.

https://twitter.com/DHenschen/status/477109298276073472

To which I replied:

> @DHenschen that is an article about platforms. informationweek.com/big-data/big-d…
is an article about databases. But Cloudant is a platform for CouchDB.

https://twitter.com/nslater/status/477111652765409282

He also said:

> Read comment mentioning CouchDB. Enterprises want support. RT @nslater: thanks for the
coverage of Cloudant, a CouchDB provider!

https://twitter.com/DHenschen/status/477109967120781312

To which I replied:

> @DHenschen yup. Platforms are very important! But in an article about DBs specifically,
I was hoping to see a mention of CouchDB.

https://twitter.com/nslater/status/477112011009327104

I would ask: why did this happen? How did this reporter confuse
Cloudant (as a database platform) with the database itself? And is
there anything we can do to mitigate against this?

On 12 June 2014 17:33, Andy Ellicott <aellicot@us.ibm.com> wrote:
> Thanks Andy, I was wondering when someone was going to bring up Couchbase on
> this thread instead of villifying us!
>
> We hold no reluctance to mentioning CouchDB at all. We just stop short of
> saying Cloudant = hosted CouchDB
>
> We're happy to continue to fund awareness raising via the community and IBM
> (and on our own). We're a bit focused on the process of getting integrated
> into IBM at the moment. Hopefully we'll be able to come up for air soon and
> contribute more on the CouchDB marketing front. We can spare money easier
> than we can spare people right now, if you've got ideas or need funding for
> marketing ideas (e.g., Lena's weekly reports), don't hesitate to ask..
>
>
> Andy Ellicott
> VP Marketing
> Cloudant.com, an IBM company
> 200 State Street
> Boston, MA  02109
> (m) +1 603 205 2804
>
>
>
>
> From:        Andy Wenk <andywenk@apache.org>
> To:        Sally Khudairi <sallykhudairi@yahoo.com>
> Cc:        Noah Slater <nslater@apache.org>, "marketing@couchdb.apache.org"
> <marketing@couchdb.apache.org>, "TheApacheFoundation ." <press@apache.org>
> Date:        06/12/2014 11:21 AM
> Subject:        Re: Cloudant and CouchDB branding
> ________________________________
>
>
>
> Noah and Sally,
>
> thanks for bringing this up. Yes it's frustrating. And let's not forget
> about the existing confusion with Couchbase also. CouchDB is one of the
> first NoSQL databases and still a plain open source project. Noah you have
> often stated, that as a community existing out of volunteers, we don't have
> the power Couchbase or MongDB Inc has regarding marketing activities.
>
> I remember the email sent by Adam K. who asked, what IBM could do to help
> Apache CouchDB. There we have one point: marketing and press presence. Even
> though Lena is already doing a great awesome job, we need a bigger lever to
> not sink among the other NoSQL databases.
>
> Thanks a lot for all your help. It's highly appreciated. Please let me know
> what I can do to help ...
>
> Cheers
>
> Andy
>
>
> On 12 June 2014 17:11, Sally Khudairi <sallykhudairi@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> Thanks, Noah. I hear you. Believe me.
>>
>> I'm working with another PMC right now on finding a way to help TLPs with
>> this issue.
>>
>> Just so you know, CouchDB is high on my awareness list. I actually pitched
>> you guys to a reporter yesterday who had similar Cloudant/CouchDB
>> confusion.
>>
>> Furthermore, the ASF Board is aware of the need and is in support of our
>> finding a solution.
>>
>> Bear with us, but don't remain silent.
>>
>> -Sally
>>
>>
>>   ------------------------------
>>  *From:* Noah Slater <nslater@apache.org>
>> *To:* "marketing@couchdb.apache.org" <marketing@couchdb.apache.org>
>> *Cc:* TheApacheFoundation . <press@apache.org>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, 12 June 2014, 11:08
>> *Subject:* Cloudant and CouchDB branding
>
>>
>> Hello marketing folks,
>>
>> Check out this list of 15 NoSQL databases to watch, posted by the
>> Cloudant Twitter account:
>>
>>
>>
> http://www.informationweek.com/big-data/big-data-analytics/16-nosql-newsql-databases-to-watch/d/d-id/1269559?image_number=1
>
>>
>> It actually took me several minutes to spot that Cloudant was in that
>> list. I had a draft tweet reply asking why it wasn't mentioned before
>> I spotted it.
>>
>> The logo is about 66% the IBM logo, then 33% the Cloudant logo. Which
>> is a bit weird, if you ask me. But there you go. That's Cloudant's
>> issue, not ours.
>>
>> What I do take issue with is that in a list of 15 top NoSQL databases,
>> CouchDB doesn't get a mention, but a company that packages up
>> (admittedly, a fork of, at this point) CouchDB does. And it is
>> Cloudant's name that gets press.
>>
>> We have:
>>
>> - MongoDB
>> - Riak
>> - Apache HBase
>> - Cassandra
>> - Cloudant
>>
>> One of those is not like the others. Anyone else see the problem with
>> this?
>>
>> What can we do about it?
>>
>> The author of the article posted this tweet about it:
>>
>> https://twitter.com/DHenschen/status/477089827981377536
>>
>> I replied with two tweets:
>>
>> > @DHenschen thanks for the coverage of Cloudant, a CouchDB provider! Just
>> wondering why you don’t mention CouchDB specifically?
>>
>> https://twitter.com/nslater/status/477104465976512512
>>
>> > @DHenschen I imagine that if you were covering Hadoop, you’d mention
>> Hadoop specifically, and not Cloudera or Hortonworks.
>>
>> https://twitter.com/nslater/status/477104509513396224
>>
>> I spoke to Jan about this before sending. Jan mentions that this is
>> probably the result of Cloudant having a strong PR/AR game.
>>
>> We don't engage PR/AR at all. I'm wondering what we can do to change
>> this. Because this article (while cool for Cloudant) makes me very
>> sad.
>>
>> Sally, is there anything you can do to help us avoid this sort of
>> situation in the future? I brand has really taken a beating in recent
>> years, and stuff like this really does not help us at all.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> --
>> Noah Slater
>> https://twitter.com/nslater
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Andy Wenk
> Hamburg - Germany
> RockIt!
>
> GPG fingerprint: C044 8322 9E12 1483 4FEC 9452 B65D 6BE3 9ED3 9588
>
> https://people.apache.org/keys/committer/andywenk.asc
>



-- 
Noah Slater
https://twitter.com/nslater

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