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From Jan Lehnardt <...@apache.org>
Subject Re: [DISCUSSION] Moving CouchDB off of Facebook React
Date Sat, 19 Aug 2017 13:42:15 GMT

> On 19. Aug 2017, at 15:37, Jonathan Hall <flimzy@flimzy.com> wrote:
> 
> Has an effort been made, or otherwise ruled out, at contacting the authors/publishers
of the other React libraries in use, to see if a re-licensing or dual-licensing favorable
to the ASF might be negotiated? 

The other react libs that require most porting effort (css animation, flux) are also published
by Facebook under BSD+Patents. But good thinking.

Best
Jan
--


> 
> 
> 
> On August 19, 2017 12:50:42 PM GMT+02:00, Jan Lehnardt <jan@apache.org> wrote:
> Thanks for getting the ball rolling Joan,
> 
> If you are interested in the licensing/policy details, I’ve summed things up on my
blog: http://writing.jan.io/2017/08/19/understanding-the-facebook-vs-asf-license-kerfuffle.html
— if you want to comment on this, please start a new thread, or email me privately. This
thread is only for what we do next with Fauxton.
> 
> * * *
> 
> To take a bit of pressure out of this decision making process, I want to bring up an
option that unblocks us indefinitely for making new releases at the expense of end-user experience.
> 
> It’s a little bit of work, but not as much as anything approaching a rewrite.
> 
> 1. move apache-fauxton to its own GitHub organisation outside of the ASF 
> (we can always re-integrate it later)
> 2. publish release builds as tarballs somewhere on the web.
> 3. replace /_utils in CouchDB with a custom route that displays a simple web ui with
a button “install Fauxton” that goes away once Fauxton is installed, that then fetches
a Fauxton release tarball from outside the ASF and installs it on the user system.
> 
> There is some infrastructure work to be done, and the added inconvenience for our end-users
is not something I’d like to keep up for long.
> 
> But should we decide to take this option (or one like it), it would allow us to not have
to rush with a Fauxton adaptation, or be blocked on releases, or have no admin UI in a release.
> 
> * * *
> 
> Garren has already done some experiments with preact[1] (a react-API compatible rendering
library with a compatible license) and has a basic prototype running. Since we are also using
additional React libraries that have no corresponding equivalent in preact-land, Garren expects
to migration work to take 1-2 months of development time, something I’m not sure we are
able to afford at this point.
> 
> [1]: https://preactjs.com
> 
> * * *
> 
> Moving to a library that isn’t React-API compatible would be close to a complete Fauxton
rewrite which would likely take years at our pace, and would break compatibility with downstream
addons (that we know Cloudant are using).
> 
> As such, my preference would be to stick with the React-API and find a minimal replacement
for what we need. But I’d like to leave the final decision to the Fauxton team.
> 
> * * *
> 
> I’d be happy to help with a recruiting drive to get more folks helping to do the port.
> 
> Best
> Jan
> —
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  On 19. Aug 2017, at 02:40, Joan Touzet <wohali@apache.org> wrote:
>  
>  Hello everyone,
>  
>  <Joan puts her Apache CouchDB PMC hat on>
>  
>  I have some difficult news to communicate.
>  
>  Those of you who are more tuned in to the JavaScript world will be aware
>  that the Apache Software Foundation (ASF) has placed the so-called "BSD
>  + Patents" license that Facebook uses in licensing some of its open
>  source technologies, such as the popular React library, into "Category
>  X." This means that we are no longer able to ship React in Apache
>  CouchDB, nor have it as a build dependency, after August 31, 2017.
>  
>  Subsequently, we asked Facebook if they would consider changing the
>  React license to avoid this conflict, as they chose to do for their
>  RocksDB database. About an hour ago, they publicly announced that this
>  would not be forthcoming:
>  
>  https://code.facebook.com/posts/112130496157735/explaining-react-s-license/
>  
>  This means that we must replace the use of React in Fauxton completely
>  (with something like Vue or preact), and ship CouchDB without Fauxton
>  until the former can be completed (or simply not ship until the rewrite
>  is complete.)
>  
>  No one in the PMC is suggesting we remove Fauxton completely from
>  CouchDB either now or in the future - we consider our web UI a defining
>  feature of the product and would consider a Fauxton-less release of
>  CouchDB incomplete.
>  
>  I would like to open the discussion towards the Fauxton rewrite, and
>  specifically:
>  
>  * Which replacement library do we like the best? Why?
>  * Who is willing to step up to lead this change?
>  * Do you know any good JS devs willing to help us?
>  
>  Those who are interested in the reasons why this policy decision was
>  reached by the ASF are encouraged to read the following links:
>  
>  https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-303
>  https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/LEGAL-319
>  https://github.com/facebook/react/issues/10191
>  
>  PLEASE do not devolve this thread into discussion about Facebook's
>  decision, or why the ASF has made the policy decision that they have;
>  such discussions lead nowhere, and CouchDB is not in a position to
>  influence either organisation to change their decisions.
>  
>  On behalf of the CouchDB PMC,
>  Joan Touzet
> 
> -- 
> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.

-- 
Professional Support for Apache CouchDB:
https://neighbourhood.ie/couchdb-support/


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