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From Joan Touzet <woh...@apache.org>
Subject Re: Publisher account for CouchDB snap
Date Thu, 26 Jan 2017 22:42:21 GMT
----- Original Message -----
> From: "Eli Stevens (Gmail)" <wickedgrey@gmail.com>
> To: "CouchDB Developers" <dev@couchdb.apache.org>
> Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2017 5:40:01 PM
> Subject: Re: Publisher account for CouchDB snap
> 
> Are issues with and troubleshooting of the previously-provided
> CouchDB
> 2.0 snap files on topic for dev? 

On-topic is anything necessary to get the snaps built correctly,
i.e. "I need help building CouchDB for snaps" is a perfectly fine
topic.

Bob (and I) are concerned about discussing the general
mechanics of the snap ecosystem here - e.g., "how do I get a
*specific version* of a snap pinned on my servers" is way 
off-topic.

> If not, I can take it private.
> 
> Honest question - not wanting to step on toes, and my internal
> calibration doesn't seem to line up with Bob's (I figured that
> discussing binary packaging for 2.0 would be on-topic for the list),
> so I figure it's best to ask.
> 
> Thanks,
> Eli
> 
> On Sat, Jan 21, 2017 at 2:30 AM, Robert Samuel Newson
> <rnewson@apache.org> wrote:
> > Gentle reminder that this is the developer mailing list for
> > CouchDB.
> >
> > B.
> >
> >> On 21 Jan 2017, at 05:04, Eli Stevens (Gmail)
> >> <wickedgrey@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Ah, great. I'll be the first to admit I haven't done a deep dive
> >> on
> >> the docs yet.
> >>
> >> Given what you just wrote, the only issue I that can see remaining
> >> is
> >> that the majority of our systems are behind hospital firewalls,
> >> unable
> >> to reach the open internet. We provide system updates by handing
> >> our
> >> customers a big GPG-signed and encrypted .tar.gz that gets
> >> unpacked,
> >> with install scripts, .deb files with new versions of libraries,
> >> our
> >> new application software, etc. all contained inside.
> >>
> >> How would we update snaps in that kind of environment?
> >>
> >> On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 6:13 PM, mhall119 <mhall119@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>> Hi Eli,
> >>>
> >>> Enterprise servers, clouds and industrial IoT is a major focus
> >>> for snaps,
> >>> perhaps more so than desktop.
> >>>
> >>> As I understand it you're making a medical device, right? In this
> >>> use case
> >>> we have a special class of snaps called "gadget snaps" which
> >>> enable the
> >>> specific hardware your product is using. This lets you ship
> >>> provide the
> >>> drivers and kernel modules your device will need on top of the
> >>> Ubuntu OS
> >>> snap that contains the basic operating system, and combine it
> >>> with
> >>> application snaps like CouchDB, all of which can be updated
> >>> independently
> >>> of each other.
> >>>
> >>> The "Update control" system is essentially what you describe,
> >>> there's a
> >>> list of subordinate snaps that you can pin to a specific version.
> >>> Then when
> >>> you update that list in the store, all your devices will see it
> >>> and get
> >>> upgrade whatever snaps you've told them to upgrade.
> >>>
> >>> The store we provide is build for this kind of use case, so it
> >>> offers both
> >>> private snaps and custom stores (in case your product wants to
> >>> let users
> >>> install other snaps you've chosen to support). We are still
> >>> learning all of
> >>> the different use cases that are out there, so if our current
> >>> offering
> >>> doesn't cover yours we'd still like to know more about it so we
> >>> can try and
> >>> improve it.
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 12:37 PM, Eli Stevens (Gmail)
> >>> <wickedgrey@gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Thanks for following up!
> >>>>
> >>>> We were not planning on making our product into a snap at this
> >>>> time,
> >>>> though I suppose we could have a stub snap just to lock down
> >>>> CouchDB's
> >>>> version. Seems a bit kludgy, but I'm not convinced I'm
> >>>> understanding
> >>>> the situation you're describing well. We're certainly not
> >>>> interested
> >>>> in having any of our snaps available through the official store,
> >>>> as
> >>>> we've got some pretty specific hardware requirements, and a
> >>>> sales
> >>>> process that doesn't work well for that kind of setup (mostly
> >>>> about
> >>>> ongoing maintenance costs).
> >>>>
> >>>> All we're really looking for is a way to say to the snap system
> >>>> "hey,
> >>>> I'll give you a directory full of snaps to install, and then I
> >>>> want
> >>>> you to leave them alone (in terms of no auto-updating). At some
> >>>> point
> >>>> in the future, a new directory of updated snaps will be
> >>>> provided, and
> >>>> then we'll want those installed, and then left alone."
> >>>>
> >>>> Do you know if snaps have server/enterprise usage as a use-case,
> >>>> or
> >>>> are they aimed squarely at user/desktop applications?
> >>>>
> >>>> Cheers,
> >>>> Eli
> >>>>
> >>>> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 7:20 AM, Michael Hall
> >>>> <mhall119@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>> On 12/20/2016 01:56 PM, Eli Stevens (Gmail) wrote:
> >>>>>> On Tue, Dec 20, 2016 at 9:16 AM, Michael Hall
> >>>>>> <mhall119@gmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>> On 12/19/2016 06:23 PM, Eli Stevens (Gmail) wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>> - Is it possible to disable automatic updates for snaps?
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> It's possible, I don't know the details of it though. Can
you
> >>>>>>> tell me
> >>>>>>> what your concern is with leaving it on?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> The FDA requires us to produce documentation detailing the
> >>>>>> versions of
> >>>>>> 3rd party software we use to construct our product, and attest
> >>>>>> to the
> >>>>>> suitability of those versions for the purpose that we're using
> >>>>>> them
> >>>>>> for. Maintaining the proper documentation gets a lot harder
> >>>>>> when the
> >>>>>> version can get swapped out from underneath us without
> >>>>>> warning. And if
> >>>>>> there's an actual incompatibility, that means that cancer
> >>>>>> patients
> >>>>>> might not be able to start their course of treatment on time,
> >>>>>> which
> >>>>>> the patients, clinical staff, and our director of customer
> >>>>>> support all
> >>>>>> agree is undesirable.  ;)
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi Eli, sorry for taking to long to get an answer for you on
> >>>>> this, I had
> >>>>> to find someone in Canonical who could tell me what the options
> >>>>> are, and
> >>>>> then it appears I accidentally deleted this email thread.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The Snap store that Canonical runs has a features called
> >>>>> "Update
> >>>>> control" designed for device makers, which lets them specify
> >>>>> what
> >>>>> versions of other snaps can be installed on their device. This
> >>>>> would let
> >>>>> you specify, in your own snap, which version of couchdb will be
> >>>>> used on
> >>>>> your device. You can then update that information in your snap
> >>>>> in the
> >>>>> store, and all of your devices will see that only then will
> >>>>> they update
> >>>>> couchdb to the new version.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This is a commercial feature of the store, it's not available
> >>>>> to regular
> >>>>> application snap developers. I'd be happy to put you in touch
> >>>>> with
> >>>>> someone at Canonical who can tell you more about it and help
> >>>>> you get
> >>>>> setup with it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> Michael Hall
> >>>>> mhall119@gmail.com
> >>>>
> >
> 

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