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From Johs Ensby <>
Subject Re: “Yes, and…”, not “But…” (Was: [PROPOSAL] Create mailing list)
Date Wed, 16 Sep 2015 04:36:15 GMT
Thanks Robert,
will study)
What I discovered so far is that philosophy papers on OSS is very har to find. It is as if
OSS would be an insulated human space and had its own philosophical basis.
I would expect that the various streams of philosophy and ideology that tend to govern our
thinking affects OSS too, while there doesn't seem to be much studies on this from the philosophy
side (unlike law, eceonomics and many other diciplines).

About my comments on conflict, I DO believe in resolving conflicts (not enforcing them), but
i think it is folly to ignore or avoid them totally.
My comment was towards the NVC ideology that I did not know of before now. It looked like
focusing on avoiding conflict to facilitate a transaction (you get what you need and I get
what I need).
Looks good for running workshop or marriage counseling, but would not get a skyscraper built,
where you need to develop respect for each other's strength and also for some objective truth
(like the steelworker may know how to mount the steel beam, but cannot be at liberty to decide
if and where it should be mounted, since neither the steelworker or structural engineer has
any power over gravity).
Juggling these metaphors might not help us, what I wanted to say was that found the video
interesting, but the NVC philosophy did not pass my crap filter.

It created an interest to check if any paper has been written about philosophies (scholarly
ones) in OSS development.
If I were a philosophy student looking for a PhD theme now, "Philosophies and their impact
on OSS product quality" would be a candidate.

I realize that product quality is not the only outcome of OSS development (learning, sense
of accomplishment and peer recognition and others might be as important) and thus there are
many ways to define success for a OSS community.

What I am looking for is "what thinking and culture will make the OSS community turn out a
superior product".


> On 16. sep. 2015, at 03.33, Robert Kowalski <> wrote:
> Hi Johs,
> there is some more material I know of which completes the talk from Isaac.
> - A talk which tries to take a look what motivates people in Open Source
> and what happens when at some point some people are paid to do certain
> tasks in the project [1]
> - The book "Producing Open Source Software", written by the author of our
> neighbors at the ASF that maintain the svn project - which was also part of
> Isaacs talk as further reference [2]
> - Parts of "Natalia Berdys: The web experience in the autistic spectrum"
> [3]
> In the end it is all about input and output. You throw things into your
> mail, that get's read by real people. Real people are behind that screen,
> and these people have feelings. These people get feelings when they read
> your response.
> I am not sure what you mean by avoiding conflict or enforcing conflict to
> build a skyscraper. I think you can build a good skyscraper or also a
> smaller project if your group is able to give proper feedback. If your
> group is not able to give proper feedback to everyone on a regular basis
> building everything gets harder - if not impossible.
> [1]
> [2]
> [3]
> On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 7:37 PM, Johs Ensby <> wrote:
>> Robert,
>> the video that you recommended caught my interest and I saw the whole
>> thing trough again and took a closer into the philosophy behind it. The NVC
>> ideology didn't pass my standards, I am afraid.
>> The danger of totally abandoning the concept of objective truth is that
>> you end up with everybody's feelings as the only sacred thing in this world.
>> To avoid conflict to maximize your transaction with people (you get what
>> you need and I get what I need) can be good in a short-term business
>> relation, but not if you try to build a good machine or sky scraper.
>> Would be interesting to know if anyone know of a paper that deals with the
>> difference in values and beliefs in the best OSS teams.
>> Johs
>>> On 15. sep. 2015, at 02.48, Johs Ensby <> wrote:
>>> Thanks for this video, Robert
>>> Very interesting, any other input like this that captures knowhow about
>> how to make OSS communities productive and compassionate would be highly
>> appreciated
>>> Johs
>>>> On 14. sep. 2015, at 19.35, Robert Kowalski < <mailto:
>>>> wrote:
>>>> I would really recommend this talk which explains a lot of Human-Human
>>>> interactions in communities:
>> <
>>>> I would be really interested in your feedback about it as a possible
>>>> building block for further discussions about Jan's and Jason's mails.

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