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From Alexander Shorin <kxe...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Summary of IRC Meeting in #couchdb-meeting
Date Wed, 25 Mar 2015 13:05:11 GMT
There wasn't any announcements, so much likely no. Personally, I
cannot run it today.
--
,,,^..^,,,


On Wed, Mar 25, 2015 at 11:30 AM, madhuka udantha
<madhukaudantha@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> Will the weekly meeting be held today?
>
> On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 3:16 AM, ASF IRC Bot <asfbot@urd.zones.apache.org>
> wrote:
>
>> Summary of IRC Meeting in #couchdb-meeting at Wed Mar 18 20:01:39 2015:
>>
>> Attendees: Wohali, arun_agarwal, Buddhika, Kxepal, Ndeeshaan,
>> sebastianrothbuc, nslater, jan____, klaus_trainer, robertkowalski,
>> rkowalski__
>>
>> - Preface
>> - fauxton status
>> - rcouch merge
>> - couchperuser
>> - Google Summer of Code (GSoC)
>>   - Action: robertkowalski to start vote for couchperuser
>> - couchdb-www / www@c.a.o
>> - couchdbdocker
>> - nano import
>> - _bulk_revs
>> - 2.0
>>   - Action: robertkowalski writes a text about the process
>>   - Action: Kxepal and jan____ to figure out consolidation of install
>> instructions
>>
>>
>> IRC log follows:
>>
>> ## Preface ##
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:02:48 2015] <robertkowalski>: I would like to welcome
>> Ndeeshaan who participates in this gsoc
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:02:55 2015] <robertkowalski>: :)
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:02:57 2015] <robertkowalski>: hi!
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:03:17 2015] <arun_agarwal>: I am also a first timer here :)
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:03:21 2015] <sebastianrothbuc>: great - welcome!
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:03:38 2015] <robertkowalski>: hi arun_agarwal! welcome!
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:03:55 2015] <arun_agarwal>: Hi Robert and everyone in the
>> team.
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:04:15 2015] <jan____>: heya arun_agarwal & Ndeeshaan
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:04:21 2015] <Ndeeshaan>: Hi all
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:04:51 2015] <Kxepal>: Ndeeshaan: arun_agarwal hi and
>> welcome (:
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:07:56 2015] <jan____>: robertkowalski: wanna go with your
>> topics?
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:08:08 2015] <robertkowalski>: ok!
>> ## fauxton status ##
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:09:00 2015] <robertkowalski>: the fauxton testsuite
>> (integration tests) will be running on couchdb 2 soon, PR is already in
>> review
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:09:34 2015] <robertkowalski>: for the mango interface that
>> means that we can write integration tests for it.
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:09:47 2015] <robertkowalski>: current status of mango: you
>> can create indexes and list them
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:10:04 2015] <robertkowalski>: garren currently works on
>> rewriting the all-docs-list to react
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:10:36 2015] <robertkowalski>: if you know fauxton, you will
>> know that the all-docs-list is a horrible, grown, godobject the refactor
>> solves a lot of problems
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:11:16 2015] <jan____>: nice!
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:11:17 2015] <robertkowalski>: michelle rewrites activetasks
>> in react
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:11:32 2015] <robertkowalski>: and we have a lot of smaller
>> bugfixes in the pipeline
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:12:14 2015] <robertkowalski>: it think that's it for
>> fauxton, i expect the first part of mango getting merged next week, behind
>> a small feature-flip
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:12:22 2015] <robertkowalski>: so interested folks can test
>> it already
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:12:33 2015] <robertkowalski>: and the code is integrated
>> into master
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:12:49 2015] <jan____>: why a feature flip?
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:13:12 2015] <robertkowalski>: currently it is just possible
>> to create and list indexes
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:13:15 2015] <robertkowalski>: not to query
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:13:44 2015] <robertkowalski>: but i would like to integrate
>> into master early and don't want users think it is a bug and create jira
>> tickets
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:13:53 2015] <robertkowalski>: + to
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:14:14 2015] <jan____>: got it, thanks!
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:14:19 2015] <robertkowalski>:
>> http://locahlhost:8000/mydatabase?beta=enableQuery
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:14:30 2015] <robertkowalski>: and then the menu-point gets
>> visible
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:15:25 2015] <jan____>: cool trick :)
>> ## rcouch merge ##
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:15:50 2015] <robertkowalski>: jan____: yes, easy as pie but
>> very useful
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:16:07 2015] <robertkowalski>: i was wondering what the
>> status of the rcouch merge is
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:16:22 2015] <robertkowalski>: and Kxepal answered on the ML
>> that one feature got merged, the others not
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:16:25 2015] <Wohali>: not sure rnewson or davisp are here
>> to talk about it
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:16:33 2015] <Kxepal>: robertkowalski: it's stalled. we need
>> a hero and benoitc to pick the features from those branch
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:16:52 2015] <Wohali>: some of the features are incompatible
>> in their current state, or are broken by clustering
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:17:17 2015] <Kxepal>: but some features are very useful
>> like lagger configuration
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:17:25 2015] <robertkowalski>: hmmm... is it still supposed
>> to land in 2.0?
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:17:33 2015] <Kxepal>: robertkowalski: partially
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:17:45 2015] <Wohali>: the logging configuration has been
>> touched differently on master with lager
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:17:46 2015] <Kxepal>: full merge wasn't in priority
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:18:15 2015] <Wohali>: i think making any more rcouch merge
>> actions for 2.0 a priority will significantly delay its release
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:18:24 2015] <Wohali>: not saying there's not useful stuff
>> but beware scope creep!
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:18:55 2015] <robertkowalski>: fully agreed!
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:19:20 2015] <Wohali>: moving on unless there's more to say
>> here
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:19:20 2015] <jan____>: yeah, I think we agreed on getting
>> 2.0 out and then port over more things
>> ## couchperuser ##
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:19:43 2015] <robertkowalski>: klaus_trainer pinged me
>> yesterday
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:20:18 2015] <robertkowalski>: he would like to move
>> couchperuser to the asf and would also like to maintain it
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:20:21 2015] <jan____>: Bob Ippolito wrote this little
>> plugin that creates a user DB when a user signs up.
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:20:31 2015] <jan____>: it’s small and useful and he’d be
>> fine with donating it to the ASF
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:20:40 2015] <robertkowalski>: thanks jan, sorry for not
>> providing context
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:20:41 2015] <jan____>: I wouldn’t mind taking this on as an
>> off-by-default feature
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:21:04 2015] <jan____>: plus klaus is already working on
>> making it for 2.0 etc.
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:21:09 2015] <Wohali>: +1, off-by-default, assuming there
>> are some tests added and it doesn't break in clustered mode
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:21:13 2015] <klaus_trainer>: See
>> https://github.com/KlausTrainer/couchperuser
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:21:20 2015] <Kxepal>: I guess we need to run a vote and IP
>> clearance then
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:21:32 2015] <jan____>: I’d be happy to be the officer that
>> runs the import paperwork
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:21:49 2015] <Kxepal>: jan____: thank you a lot for that!
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:21:59 2015] <jan____>: Wohali: has tests, don’t know about
>> cluster mode yet, klaus_trainer?
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:22:22 2015] <Buddhika>: Hi peple :D
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:22:22 2015] <jan____>: been doing imports lately, don’t
>> mind it :)
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:22:29 2015] <klaus_trainer>: Currently there are no tests
>> that we can use right now.
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:22:35 2015] <robertkowalski>: i am happy to help out
>> jan____ if klaus_trainer has questions, as i did that for mango with jan____
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:22:37 2015] <Wohali>: jan____: as always the hard thing is
>> that many plugins make assumptions that aren't cluster-safe, e.g. being the
>> "only" node involved in something, making assumptions about locking things
>> down, etc.
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:23:19 2015] <jan____>: Wohali: yeah, looking forward how
>> klaus_trainer is solving this :)
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:23:23 2015] <Wohali>: yay
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:23:40 2015] <Wohali>: i'd say get the ip clearance done,
>> put in a branch, hopefully clean up for official 2.0 release
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:24:20 2015] <Wohali>: anything else?
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:24:32 2015] <klaus_trainer>: Sounds good. I'm definitely
>> willing to do more work on it assuming that we can integrate it.
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:24:38 2015] <Wohali>: yay
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:24:40 2015] <Wohali>: moving on
>> ## Google Summer of Code (GSoC) ##
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:24:46 2015] <robertkowalski>: shall i kick off a vote on
>> the dev-ml for the codebase?
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:24:51 2015] <jan____>: in addition, would say this isn’t
>> blocking 2,0
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:25:06 2015] <Wohali>: agreed, not a 2.0 blocker, get it in
>> a branch and put in 2.0 if we can make it sane
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:25:23 2015] <jan____>: robertkowalski: +1
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:25:49 2015] <robertkowalski>: ok
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:26:04 2015] <robertkowalski>: so we are particiapting in
>> this years google summer of code!
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:26:17 2015] <jan____>: #action robertkowalski to start vote
>> for couchperuser
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:26:22 2015] <jan____>: \o/
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:26:38 2015] <klaus_trainer>: Yay!
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:26:48 2015] <robertkowalski>: Ndeeshaan and Buddhika are
>> also here today
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:27:13 2015] <robertkowalski>: I think we have 5 students
>> that are interested
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:27:38 2015] <robertkowalski>: and the deadline for the
>> proposals is in 1-2weeks
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:28:12 2015] <Ndeeshaan>: 27 th of March is the deadline
>> precisely :)
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:28:46 2015] <robertkowalski>: we are still searching for
>> mentors, jan____ is mentoring the queryserver protocol improvements, and i
>> am mentoring for fauxton
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:29:19 2015] <robertkowalski>: but more mentors would be
>> even better! :)
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:29:20 2015] <Wohali>: i'm sorry that i can't volunteer this
>> time
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:30:11 2015] <robertkowalski>: Buddhika: I will look for a
>> template for the proposal tonight for you and Ndeeshaan
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:30:24 2015] <robertkowalski>: and the other students
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:30:40 2015] <Buddhika>: That would be great
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:30:46 2015] <jan____>: Wohali: do not worry! <3
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:30:48 2015] <robertkowalski>: Wohali: no worries! next year!
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:31:20 2015] <Ndeeshaan>: robertkowalski: Thanks a lot
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:31:36 2015] <robertkowalski>: we are also happy to help
>> with the proposals, at least where we can
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:32:25 2015] <robertkowalski>: i think thats it so far
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:32:32 2015] <Buddhika>: We'll try to prepare draft
>> proposals as soon as possible.
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:32:48 2015] <Buddhika>: We have one week to refine them.
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:33:27 2015] <robertkowalski>: cool!
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:33:38 2015] <Ndeeshaan>: I have completed my draft proposal
>> and I can send it :)
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:34:17 2015] <robertkowalski>: awesome!
>> ## couchdb-www / www@c.a.o ##
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:35:49 2015] <jan____>: we have a new git repo couchdb-www
>> that infra is testing git-based website publishing
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:37:10 2015] <jan____>: it isn’t 100% live yet, but the EU
>> mirror of the web server is already backed by it. So if we now want to make
>> any changes, we have to do it in SVN and git, but only for a short while,
>> until more projects signed up to use git and INFRA moves us over fully
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:37:34 2015] <robertkowalski>: jan____: \o/
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:37:43 2015] <jan____>: in addition, we agreed to set up a
>> www@c.a.o mailing list and it exists now, but nothing is happening. Does
>> anyone have any insight as to why?
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:37:45 2015] <robertkowalski>: jan____: is it on github?
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:38:11 2015] <jan____>: no github mirror yet
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:38:14 2015] <robertkowalski>: jan____: i guess everyone is
>> waiting for github to send PRs
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:38:49 2015] <jan____>: yeah, I’ve been pushy, but infra is
>> also busy with other stuff
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:39:26 2015] <robertkowalski>: jan____: at least i am doing
>> that (waiting) before writing to www@ that we have git now
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:39:30 2015] <jan____>: but about www@ — what are we
>> waiting for?
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:40:45 2015] <robertkowalski>: arun_agarwal is also
>> subscribed waiting for github prs
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:41:31 2015] <robertkowalski>: at least i asked him to do
>> that
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:42:07 2015] <arun_agarwal>: robertkowalski: yup, true
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:42:09 2015] <jan____>: ok, thanks!
>> ## couchdbdocker ##
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:45:24 2015] <jan____>: just FYI: The couchdb-docker project
>> is also being imported from github, necessary paperwork on their end has
>> been filed, next step is getting the IP clearance going, will do that this
>> week.
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:45:37 2015] <Kxepal>: \o/
>> ## nano import ##
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:47:13 2015] <jan____>: Garren has been sorting out the
>> legal paperwork for nano, and we are close. once that is all done, we’ll
>> start the usual import procedure, I’m also shepherding that.
>> ## _bulk_revs  ##
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:48:53 2015] <jan____>: I’m interested in optmising
>> replication performance using _bulk_revs / COUCHDB-2310
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:49:25 2015] <jan____>: we are basically waiting for a patch
>> from benoitc, but if that doesn’t materialise, I’ll look at doing it from
>> scratch.
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:49:38 2015] <Kxepal>: jan____: I had a talk with him today
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:49:40 2015] <Wohali>: +1 to try from scratch
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:49:51 2015] <Kxepal>: he'll try to find a time to make it
>> soon
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:49:53 2015] <jan____>: Kxepal: any news?
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:50:15 2015] <jan____>: Kxepal: ok, nice to hear.
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:50:46 2015] <robertkowalski>: Kxepal: did he mention a
>> specific timeframe in that he wants to try to find time?
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:50:50 2015] <jan____>: I have a week or two before I can
>> look into it proper, so that would be my cutoff date
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:51:23 2015] <robertkowalski>: jan____: ah ok, good idea
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:51:24 2015] <Kxepal>: robertkowalski: no, but that's in his
>> priority list todo for couchdb now as I understood.
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:52:03 2015] <Kxepal>: so let's give him a little bit time
>> to finish the job
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:52:13 2015] <jan____>: k
>> ## 2.0 ##
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:54:19 2015] <robertkowalski>: i was one week away but i
>> think nothing has happened for 2.0, right?
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:54:51 2015] <robertkowalski>: i still did not have time to
>> work on my items, blocked by mango and other stuff
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:54:59 2015] <jan____>: small things, as far as I can see
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:55:02 2015] <Kxepal>: robertkowalski: nothing criminal,
>> right
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:55:52 2015] <jan____>: I did some local hacking on the
>> build/packaging stuff, but need to find more time, nothing to show yet
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:56:22 2015] <robertkowalski>: jan____: can i send you a pr
>> with my script that pulls names out of the subrepos?
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:56:41 2015] <robertkowalski>: i talked to several people
>> and they all said we don't need the number of commits
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:57:09 2015] <jan____>: just commit to my branch
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:57:17 2015] <robertkowalski>: because the exact number of
>> commits is broken as some commmits are still in the old couchdb master
>> branch, some not
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:57:34 2015] <arun_agarwal>: jan____: is there any jira
>> ticket where the hack steps are documented?
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:58:00 2015] <jan____>: arun_agarwal: which hack steps
>> specifically?
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:58:15 2015] <arun_agarwal>: jan____: on build/packaging
>> stuff.
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:59:02 2015] <arun_agarwal>: jan____: was just curious,
>> nothing specific :)
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:59:17 2015] <jan____>: arun_agarwal: hm, there isn‘t much
>> to explain
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:59:36 2015] <jan____>: arun_agarwal: I’m currently working
>> here https://github.com/apache/couchdb/pull/302
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:59:39 2015] <arun_agarwal>: jan____: ohk. I see, please go
>> ahead.
>> [Wed Mar 18 20:59:58 2015] <jan____>: there is some feedback that I need
>> to incorporate
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:00:22 2015] <jan____>: and I think I’m blocked by a cyclic
>> dependency, but I’ll figure it out. Might have to rename ./configure to
>> ./bootstrap
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:00:34 2015] <jan____>: or strip some stuff from ./configure
>> and move it into a ./bootstrap, but not 100% sure yet
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:00:58 2015] <jan____>: anything else on 2.0?
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:00:58 2015] <arun_agarwal>: jan____: sure.
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:02:06 2015] <robertkowalski>: oh sebastianrothbuc you write
>> "BTW: so did copying in 1.6.1 files, calling them from local port,
>> replicating them up to the cluster port." - does that fix COUCHDB-2593
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:02:09 2015] <robertkowalski>: ?
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:02:28 2015] <robertkowalski>:
>> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COUCHDB-2593 - maybe you can take a
>> look later
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:03:03 2015] <sebastianrothbuc>: at least I tried to destroy
>> something in such a setup (i.e. copy "old" 1.6.1 .couch files into the 2.0
>> data dir
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:03:05 2015] <sebastianrothbuc>: but it just works
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:03:10 2015] <sebastianrothbuc>: you get the databases on
>> the local port
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:03:19 2015] <sebastianrothbuc>: you can create one (same
>> name) on the cluster port
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:03:20 2015] <sebastianrothbuc>: replicate
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:03:22 2015] <sebastianrothbuc>: and that's it
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:03:23 2015] <jan____>: I’d like to start looking at running
>> the 1.x JS test suite against master, so we can see how compatible 1.x and
>> 2.0 are going to be.
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:03:42 2015] <jan____>: This will require some changes and
>> reorganisation to the tests, but I think it’ll be very worth it, if we want
>> to make upgrades as painless as possible
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:04:02 2015] <jan____>: (nice)
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:04:10 2015] <Kxepal>: jan____: js test suite need in global
>> refactoring, since it still remember the days when it ran from browsers
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:04:30 2015] <sebastianrothbuc>: can't we run it from
>> browser again?
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:04:38 2015] <Kxepal>: "some changes" may be not a trivial
>> to made
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:04:59 2015] <Kxepal>: sebastianrothbuc: no, because some
>> browsers (I didn't mention chome) are buggy on some cases
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:05:07 2015] <jan____>: I know there was a lot of work on
>> other sort of tests as well, but as far as I can tell, they are all
>> tailored for 2.0/master. I’m specifically interested in 1.x compat and I
>> think the JS tests cover the API well and have yet only run against the
>> local interface
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:05:15 2015] <jan____>: why does it need a major refactor?
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:05:37 2015] <jan____>: they run in browsrs and on the CLI
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:05:46 2015] <Kxepal>: jan____: because it's full of terror
>> if you're trying to figure why test fails.
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:06:06 2015] <jan____>: all we need to do is point them at
>> the cluster port and disable the ones that we don’t expect to work (_config
>> etc)
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:06:23 2015] <jan____>: Kxepal: I’ve lived in that world for
>> many years, I’m not afraid
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:06:37 2015] <jan____>: and I don’t want to refactor the
>> tests because I specificallyw ant to run out 1.x suite against 2.0
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:06:44 2015] <jan____>: once we are over, we can do whatever
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:06:52 2015] <Kxepal>: jan____: not sure to hug you or call
>> a hero
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:07:19 2015] <jan____>: lol <3
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:07:54 2015] <jan____>: I’mma bring this up on dev@
>> separately to hear from folks
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:08:12 2015] <Kxepal>: good call
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:08:28 2015] <jan____>: I think that will flush out some
>> more things we need to do, but after that, we are getting closer to the
>> final stretch
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:09:00 2015] <robertkowalski>: short question reagrding the
>> logo process
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:09:50 2015] <robertkowalski>: i talked to sean and he would
>> take the proposed position on the mailinglist. can i propose him or how
>> does it work?
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:10:53 2015] <jan____>: what do you mean “proposed position“
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:11:46 2015] <robertkowalski>: nslater sent an mail to the
>> mailing list:
>> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/couchdb-marketing/201503.mbox/%3CCAPaJBx4gf-yAnMPDGrKnWuN-FsC0dmuBeNLvaVpcDCyAr5CYGQ%40mail.gmail.com%3E
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:12:08 2015] <robertkowalski>: "The community selects a
>> person or person(s) to
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:12:09 2015] <robertkowalski>: do the design. That person is
>> then entrusted to do the stuff. No
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:12:10 2015] <robertkowalski>: voting necessary.
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:12:11 2015] <robertkowalski>: "
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:13:26 2015] <Kxepal>: robertkowalski: ok, but we have a
>> group of people that made a logo. each own with own vision and arguments.
>> what's now?
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:13:31 2015] <jan____>: good question, I think yeah, just
>> nominate him
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:13:54 2015] <jan____>: design by committee!
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:14:11 2015] <robertkowalski>: Kxepal: so far no one got
>> nominated by anyone
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:14:28 2015] <robertkowalski>: but i am also not sure what
>> we do if we have multiple nominations.
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:14:32 2015] <robertkowalski>: hmm..
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:14:39 2015] <nslater>: I'm at a gig
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:14:47 2015] <robertkowalski>: Wohali: what do you think?
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:14:50 2015] <nslater>: just to say: my email was just a
>> recommendation
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:14:56 2015] <jan____>: I’m in favour of letting a
>> professional designer take this on. They can work with the other proposal
>> people to figure out which way to go
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:15:01 2015] <nslater>: let's do whatever makes sense
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:15:02 2015] <jan____>: ultimately the PMC decides
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:15:08 2015] <jan____>: nslater: get out of here
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:15:10 2015] <nslater>: my words are not golden
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:15:13 2015] <jan____>: nslater: <3
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:15:16 2015] <nslater>: :)
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:15:31 2015] <nslater>: cya!
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:15:53 2015] <jan____>: what is important: we will hurt
>> people’s feelings, we need to be prepared to do this
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:16:01 2015] <jan____>: this isn’t everybody throws their
>> patch/+1 in
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:16:20 2015] <Wohali>: sorry i was lying down
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:16:39 2015] <Wohali>: can someone give me a quick question
>> as to "what do you think" means?
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:17:21 2015] <robertkowalski>: Wohali: we are unsure about
>> the process regarding the logo and how to proceed with the many submissions
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:17:31 2015] <jan____>: I like Noah’s suggestion, the PMC is
>> the customer and makes the final call, they work with a nominated designer
>> that works out one or more proposals with the other community folks.
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:17:40 2015] <jan____>: community gets to vote on
>> preferences, PMC makes a call.
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:18:03 2015] <jan____>: I have no qualms about having
>> Sean/Cloudant be that designer
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:18:04 2015] <Wohali>: agree, PMC is the ajudicator and
>> probably will result in a PMC vote. We need to review the bylaws on this
>> one to ensure there's appropriate precedent there
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:19:16 2015] <robertkowalski>: Wohali: you mean adding that
>> process to the bylaws?
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:19:21 2015] <Kxepal>: jan____: mmm...I'd like to argue you,
>> but not now
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:19:39 2015] <Wohali>: robertkowalski: all standards re:
>> voting are in the bylaws. not sure if this is covered.
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:19:47 2015] <jan____>: Kxepal: let’s do it on marketing@ —
>> I’ll reply there
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:19:52 2015] <Kxepal>: jan____: ok
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:19:54 2015] <Wohali>: as for picking a designer/design
>> group, well, that's ultimately also a PMC decision but with community input
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:20:13 2015] <Wohali>: in general in the past I've seen more
>> of a "
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:20:15 2015] <Wohali>: oops
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:20:23 2015] <Wohali>: community vote on these things. We
>> picked the top 5, what do you think?
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:20:27 2015] <jan____>: I’d say as per
>> http://couchdb.apache.org/bylaws.html#types this is the “Create or amend
>> official document” category
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:20:42 2015] <Wohali>: true, logo is an official thing
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:21:10 2015] <Wohali>: tthat says the vote would be on the
>> dev list, lazy 2/3rds, with PMC members only being  binding votes
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:21:15 2015] <Wohali>: taht is consistent
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:21:34 2015] <Wohali>: but deciding how we get that logo
>> done is a non-technical decision which is up to the committers
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:21:58 2015] <jan____>: maybe we can simplify things and
>> just have anyone (including Sean) propose their work, we do a community
>> preference vote and then PMC decided
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:22:11 2015] <jan____>: no need to make a designer BDFL for
>> the logo, all designers are BDFL for their proposal
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:22:12 2015] <Wohali>: i think that's fair, as long as a set
>> timeline happens
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:22:27 2015] <Wohali>: e.g. all submissions by march 31
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:22:34 2015] <Wohali>: public vote by april 15
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:22:36 2015] <jan____>: Wohali: I’d say how the designers
>> make the logo is up t them :)
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:22:39 2015] <Wohali>: pmc decision by april 30
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:22:44 2015] <Kxepal>: jan____: Wohali wise ideas
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:22:54 2015] <Wohali>: given we've had a lot of submissions
>> this gives just enough time to pick your best submissions
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:23:01 2015] <Wohali>: we could even say 1 submission per
>> designer
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:23:01 2015] <jan____>: as long as we have the option to
>> abort if nothing’s good, I’d be fine with that
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:23:11 2015] <Wohali>: pmc vote could include "d onothing,"
>> sure
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:23:22 2015] <jan____>: I like that
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:23:25 2015] <robertkowalski>: Wohali: great input!
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:23:29 2015] <jan____>: get an alter ego if you want to have
>> 2
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:23:38 2015] <Wohali>: hehe, no sock puppets please
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:23:50 2015] <jan____>: cool, that sounds like we have a plan
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:23:59 2015] <jan____>: robertkowalski: do you feel like
>> writing this up?
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:24:03 2015] <jan____>: :)
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:24:07 2015] <robertkowalski>: Wohali: thank you so much! :)
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:24:12 2015] <Wohali>: it's what I do.
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:24:30 2015] <robertkowalski>: jan____: if you could give me
>> a review before i send to the ML
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:24:45 2015] <robertkowalski>: jan____: then for sure!
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:24:50 2015] <jan____>: robertkowalski: always!
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:25:23 2015] <jan____>: Wohali: ^5 — thanks for talking this
>> through, I think we’ve got something here.
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:25:58 2015] <arun_agarwal>: Wohali: one quick question.
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:26:04 2015] <robertkowalski>: one question: if some folks
>> (commiters, pmc) are against changing the logo
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:26:18 2015] <robertkowalski>: do they vote -1 in the
>> committer vote?
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:26:26 2015] <Wohali>: no no the committer vote is "vote for
>> your favourite"
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:26:31 2015] <Wohali>: and we include the original logo as
>> an option
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:26:45 2015] <robertkowalski>: Wohali: ah thank you!
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:26:47 2015] <Wohali>: then the PMC vote is to accept/reject
>> the suggestios of the commitmters
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:26:50 2015] <Wohali>: arun_agarwal: go ahead
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:27:29 2015] <arun_agarwal>: Wohali: which team decides the
>> genuinty of the logo that people are proposing.. the selected logo design
>> could be "inspired" from some
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:27:35 2015] <arun_agarwal>: other logo and that could be
>> problem later on.
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:27:48 2015] <arun_agarwal>: do we have a team which brings
>> this as intellectual property?
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:28:15 2015] <Wohali>: Apache does have legal council who
>> can help review these things, yes, as we intend to file the new logo under
>> trademark / service mark law
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:28:18 2015] <jan____>: #action robertkowalski writes a text
>> about the process
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:28:31 2015] <jan____>: arun_agarwal: there is a trademarks
>> group at Apache, we’d run the final logo by them
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:29:20 2015] <arun_agarwal>: Wohali, jan____:  hmm I see..
>> that would be great, because while it unites us, we probably won't have lot
>> of time redoing this :D
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:29:46 2015] <jan____>: arun_agarwal: good call! :)
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:30:17 2015] <Wohali>: yes i think that happens after the
>> committer vote
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:30:21 2015] <jan____>: fwiw, the current logo is
>> dangerously close to the German soccer league:
>> https://encrypted.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=bundeliga&tbs=imgo:1
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:30:25 2015] <Wohali>: because if #1 is a problem, #2 in the
>> ranking might not be
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:30:34 2015] <Wohali>: jan, haha
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:30:41 2015] <Wohali>: i don't fancy fighting FIFA!
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:30:52 2015] <jan____>: lol yeah, no
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:32:03 2015] <Kxepal>: jan____: where do you see couch on
>> bundesliga logo? they aren't close.
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:32:12 2015] <Wohali>: Kxepal: it's a joke, i think
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:32:18 2015] <jan____>: huh?
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:32:32 2015] <Wohali>: i don't think they'd seriously come
>> after us, but i do see the similarity
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:32:40 2015] <Kxepal>: sorry, seems like my humor process
>> died
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:32:42 2015] <Wohali>: but, it might be hard to file for the
>> trademark
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:32:49 2015] <jan____>: white shape with pronounced legs on
>> red background
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:32:54 2015] <jan____>: totally close.
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:32:59 2015] <Kxepal>: jan____: too abstract description
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:33:14 2015] <jan____>: it is worse when you see it in
>> real-life here, I have one on my commute and it gets me every time
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:33:29 2015] <jan____>: they aren’t pixel-perfect copies,
>> but if you see one casually trust me, you will think CouchDB :)
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:33:35 2015] <jan____>: all this is off topic for now
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:33:53 2015] <Kxepal>: yea, and that's a question for
>> lawyers (:
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:33:58 2015] <jan____>: let’s wrap this :)
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:34:08 2015] <rkowalski__>: \o/
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:34:44 2015] <arun_agarwal>: if all done, I have one quick
>> point.
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:34:52 2015] <jan____>: shoot
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:34:59 2015] <arun_agarwal>: can someone fill the red TBD @
>> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/COUCHDB/Installing+CouchDB
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:35:28 2015] <arun_agarwal>: few new tech have introduced
>> starting 2.0.  should we add that or get rid of this table?
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:35:56 2015] <jan____>: arun_agarwal: ICU/Curl: same as 1.x
>> / autoconf/make no longer required
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:36:16 2015] <Wohali>: i don't think curl is still required
>> in 2.0
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:36:27 2015] <jan____>: incorrect
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:36:29 2015] <Kxepal>: Wohali: it need for tests iirc
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:36:30 2015] <Wohali>: at least, i think i removed the req't
>> for that in dbcore prior to the merge?
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:36:31 2015] <jan____>: :)
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:36:38 2015] <Wohali>: oh. boo. guess that didn't get merged.
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:36:54 2015] <jan____>: still needed for CLI JS tests
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:36:59 2015] <jan____>: it is optional
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:37:00 2015] <robertkowalski>: we have this wiki page,
>> https://github.com/apache/couchdb/blob/master/INSTALL.Unix and the
>> official docs
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:37:01 2015] <Wohali>: k
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:37:04 2015] <jan____>: and off by default
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:37:08 2015] <robertkowalski>: oh and
>> https://github.com/apache/couchdb/blob/master/README-DEV
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:37:10 2015] <Wohali>: yeah no auto*, but we need rebar now
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:37:21 2015] <Wohali>: and there are the extra req'ts for
>> building fauxton
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:37:29 2015] <arun_agarwal>: rebar and nodejs?
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:37:32 2015] <jan____>: yeah, as mentioned on the ML, I’m
>> worried about duplication of content here
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:37:35 2015] <Wohali>: and npm
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:37:35 2015] <robertkowalski>: and they are all in different
>> way outdated and up to date
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:37:46 2015] <robertkowalski>: can we remove some?
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:37:51 2015] <jan____>: and grunt etc.
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:37:59 2015] <jan____>: see the fauxton readme for fauxton
>> deps
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:38:14 2015] <arun_agarwal>: yes, we have so many links and
>> many-many are dead
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:38:18 2015] <robertkowalski>: fauxton does not need a
>> globally installed grunt soon any more
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:38:25 2015] <jan____>:
>> http://couchdb.apache.org/developer-preview/2.0/ shows what is needed
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:38:35 2015] <arun_agarwal>: for one topic we should ideally
>> have one doc and all other should be soft link to the detailed one
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:38:37 2015] <jan____>: we should only keep INSTALL.md and
>> DEVELOPER.md — everything else should link to them
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:38:38 2015] <arun_agarwal>: :)
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:38:47 2015] <sebastianrothbuc>: +1 on that
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:38:58 2015] <arun_agarwal>: jan____: +1
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:39:00 2015] <jan____>: robertkowalski: nice use of future
>> past tense there :D
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:39:35 2015] <Kxepal>: jan____: and one for docs, or
>> transform *.md into .rst to make them inclusive for docs
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:39:57 2015] <Wohali>: agree
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:40:17 2015] <jan____>: Kxepal: then we have tow places again
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:40:31 2015] <arun_agarwal>: Kxepal: but that won't generate
>> twiki?
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:40:37 2015] <Kxepal>: jan____: after transform we don't
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:40:46 2015] <arun_agarwal>: oh sorry.. got it
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:40:53 2015] <jan____>: then we should put it all in the
>> .rst docs and have INSTALL.rst and DEVELOPER.rst generated from there at
>> build time
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:40:54 2015] <arun_agarwal>: twiki will just link to these
>> markdowns
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:41:07 2015] <jan____>: arun_agarwal: let’s not also add
>> this to the wiki, we are trying to consolidate, not spread :
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:41:26 2015] <jan____>: :)
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:41:31 2015] <jan____>: right :)
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:41:31 2015] <arun_agarwal>: jan____: yup.. understood and
>> agree .. my bad...:)
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:41:49 2015] <jan____>: no worries
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:41:52 2015] <Kxepal>: jan____: mmm..you suggest to build
>> the couchdb, make the docs first? (:
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:42:30 2015] <jan____>: the requirements are: we need two
>> top level source tree files that we can have in tarballs (ideally also git)
>> and two places in the docs where the user and dev setup are explained.
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:42:48 2015] <sebastianrothbuc>: can one not link to these
>> docs on github and that's it?
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:43:00 2015] <jan____>: maybe we can make it that the top
>> level INSTALL.rst and DEVELOPER.rst are included in the docs build
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:43:04 2015] <Kxepal>: sebastianrothbuc: no internet case
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:43:06 2015] <jan____>: that would be easiest
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:43:16 2015] <robertkowalski>: sebastianrothbuc: yes i would
>> prefer that
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:43:16 2015] <Kxepal>: jan____: yeap, clear
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:43:28 2015] <jan____>: offlineofflineoffline :)
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:43:50 2015] <jan____>: robertkowalski: no go, can’t be
>> online
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:43:57 2015] <jan____>: Kxepal: cool, let’s work on that
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:44:09 2015] <jan____>: #action Kxepal and jan____ to figure
>> out consolidation of install instructions
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:44:30 2015] <Kxepal>: deal (:
>> [Wed Mar 18 21:45:47 2015] <jan____>: ASFBot: meeting end
>>
>>
>> Meeting ended at Wed Mar 18 21:45:47 2015
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Cheers,
> Madhuka Udantha
> http://madhukaudantha.blogspot.com

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