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From madhuka udantha <madhukaudan...@gmail.com>
Subject Re: Summary of IRC Meeting in #couchdb-meeting
Date Wed, 25 Mar 2015 08:30:09 GMT
Hi All,

Will the weekly meeting be held today?

On Thu, Mar 19, 2015 at 3:16 AM, ASF IRC Bot <asfbot@urd.zones.apache.org>
wrote:

> Summary of IRC Meeting in #couchdb-meeting at Wed Mar 18 20:01:39 2015:
>
> Attendees: Wohali, arun_agarwal, Buddhika, Kxepal, Ndeeshaan,
> sebastianrothbuc, nslater, jan____, klaus_trainer, robertkowalski,
> rkowalski__
>
> - Preface
> - fauxton status
> - rcouch merge
> - couchperuser
> - Google Summer of Code (GSoC)
>   - Action: robertkowalski to start vote for couchperuser
> - couchdb-www / www@c.a.o
> - couchdbdocker
> - nano import
> - _bulk_revs
> - 2.0
>   - Action: robertkowalski writes a text about the process
>   - Action: Kxepal and jan____ to figure out consolidation of install
> instructions
>
>
> IRC log follows:
>
> ## Preface ##
> [Wed Mar 18 20:02:48 2015] <robertkowalski>: I would like to welcome
> Ndeeshaan who participates in this gsoc
> [Wed Mar 18 20:02:55 2015] <robertkowalski>: :)
> [Wed Mar 18 20:02:57 2015] <robertkowalski>: hi!
> [Wed Mar 18 20:03:17 2015] <arun_agarwal>: I am also a first timer here :)
> [Wed Mar 18 20:03:21 2015] <sebastianrothbuc>: great - welcome!
> [Wed Mar 18 20:03:38 2015] <robertkowalski>: hi arun_agarwal! welcome!
> [Wed Mar 18 20:03:55 2015] <arun_agarwal>: Hi Robert and everyone in the
> team.
> [Wed Mar 18 20:04:15 2015] <jan____>: heya arun_agarwal & Ndeeshaan
> [Wed Mar 18 20:04:21 2015] <Ndeeshaan>: Hi all
> [Wed Mar 18 20:04:51 2015] <Kxepal>: Ndeeshaan: arun_agarwal hi and
> welcome (:
> [Wed Mar 18 20:07:56 2015] <jan____>: robertkowalski: wanna go with your
> topics?
> [Wed Mar 18 20:08:08 2015] <robertkowalski>: ok!
> ## fauxton status ##
> [Wed Mar 18 20:09:00 2015] <robertkowalski>: the fauxton testsuite
> (integration tests) will be running on couchdb 2 soon, PR is already in
> review
> [Wed Mar 18 20:09:34 2015] <robertkowalski>: for the mango interface that
> means that we can write integration tests for it.
> [Wed Mar 18 20:09:47 2015] <robertkowalski>: current status of mango: you
> can create indexes and list them
> [Wed Mar 18 20:10:04 2015] <robertkowalski>: garren currently works on
> rewriting the all-docs-list to react
> [Wed Mar 18 20:10:36 2015] <robertkowalski>: if you know fauxton, you will
> know that the all-docs-list is a horrible, grown, godobject the refactor
> solves a lot of problems
> [Wed Mar 18 20:11:16 2015] <jan____>: nice!
> [Wed Mar 18 20:11:17 2015] <robertkowalski>: michelle rewrites activetasks
> in react
> [Wed Mar 18 20:11:32 2015] <robertkowalski>: and we have a lot of smaller
> bugfixes in the pipeline
> [Wed Mar 18 20:12:14 2015] <robertkowalski>: it think that's it for
> fauxton, i expect the first part of mango getting merged next week, behind
> a small feature-flip
> [Wed Mar 18 20:12:22 2015] <robertkowalski>: so interested folks can test
> it already
> [Wed Mar 18 20:12:33 2015] <robertkowalski>: and the code is integrated
> into master
> [Wed Mar 18 20:12:49 2015] <jan____>: why a feature flip?
> [Wed Mar 18 20:13:12 2015] <robertkowalski>: currently it is just possible
> to create and list indexes
> [Wed Mar 18 20:13:15 2015] <robertkowalski>: not to query
> [Wed Mar 18 20:13:44 2015] <robertkowalski>: but i would like to integrate
> into master early and don't want users think it is a bug and create jira
> tickets
> [Wed Mar 18 20:13:53 2015] <robertkowalski>: + to
> [Wed Mar 18 20:14:14 2015] <jan____>: got it, thanks!
> [Wed Mar 18 20:14:19 2015] <robertkowalski>:
> http://locahlhost:8000/mydatabase?beta=enableQuery
> [Wed Mar 18 20:14:30 2015] <robertkowalski>: and then the menu-point gets
> visible
> [Wed Mar 18 20:15:25 2015] <jan____>: cool trick :)
> ## rcouch merge ##
> [Wed Mar 18 20:15:50 2015] <robertkowalski>: jan____: yes, easy as pie but
> very useful
> [Wed Mar 18 20:16:07 2015] <robertkowalski>: i was wondering what the
> status of the rcouch merge is
> [Wed Mar 18 20:16:22 2015] <robertkowalski>: and Kxepal answered on the ML
> that one feature got merged, the others not
> [Wed Mar 18 20:16:25 2015] <Wohali>: not sure rnewson or davisp are here
> to talk about it
> [Wed Mar 18 20:16:33 2015] <Kxepal>: robertkowalski: it's stalled. we need
> a hero and benoitc to pick the features from those branch
> [Wed Mar 18 20:16:52 2015] <Wohali>: some of the features are incompatible
> in their current state, or are broken by clustering
> [Wed Mar 18 20:17:17 2015] <Kxepal>: but some features are very useful
> like lagger configuration
> [Wed Mar 18 20:17:25 2015] <robertkowalski>: hmmm... is it still supposed
> to land in 2.0?
> [Wed Mar 18 20:17:33 2015] <Kxepal>: robertkowalski: partially
> [Wed Mar 18 20:17:45 2015] <Wohali>: the logging configuration has been
> touched differently on master with lager
> [Wed Mar 18 20:17:46 2015] <Kxepal>: full merge wasn't in priority
> [Wed Mar 18 20:18:15 2015] <Wohali>: i think making any more rcouch merge
> actions for 2.0 a priority will significantly delay its release
> [Wed Mar 18 20:18:24 2015] <Wohali>: not saying there's not useful stuff
> but beware scope creep!
> [Wed Mar 18 20:18:55 2015] <robertkowalski>: fully agreed!
> [Wed Mar 18 20:19:20 2015] <Wohali>: moving on unless there's more to say
> here
> [Wed Mar 18 20:19:20 2015] <jan____>: yeah, I think we agreed on getting
> 2.0 out and then port over more things
> ## couchperuser ##
> [Wed Mar 18 20:19:43 2015] <robertkowalski>: klaus_trainer pinged me
> yesterday
> [Wed Mar 18 20:20:18 2015] <robertkowalski>: he would like to move
> couchperuser to the asf and would also like to maintain it
> [Wed Mar 18 20:20:21 2015] <jan____>: Bob Ippolito wrote this little
> plugin that creates a user DB when a user signs up.
> [Wed Mar 18 20:20:31 2015] <jan____>: it’s small and useful and he’d be
> fine with donating it to the ASF
> [Wed Mar 18 20:20:40 2015] <robertkowalski>: thanks jan, sorry for not
> providing context
> [Wed Mar 18 20:20:41 2015] <jan____>: I wouldn’t mind taking this on as an
> off-by-default feature
> [Wed Mar 18 20:21:04 2015] <jan____>: plus klaus is already working on
> making it for 2.0 etc.
> [Wed Mar 18 20:21:09 2015] <Wohali>: +1, off-by-default, assuming there
> are some tests added and it doesn't break in clustered mode
> [Wed Mar 18 20:21:13 2015] <klaus_trainer>: See
> https://github.com/KlausTrainer/couchperuser
> [Wed Mar 18 20:21:20 2015] <Kxepal>: I guess we need to run a vote and IP
> clearance then
> [Wed Mar 18 20:21:32 2015] <jan____>: I’d be happy to be the officer that
> runs the import paperwork
> [Wed Mar 18 20:21:49 2015] <Kxepal>: jan____: thank you a lot for that!
> [Wed Mar 18 20:21:59 2015] <jan____>: Wohali: has tests, don’t know about
> cluster mode yet, klaus_trainer?
> [Wed Mar 18 20:22:22 2015] <Buddhika>: Hi peple :D
> [Wed Mar 18 20:22:22 2015] <jan____>: been doing imports lately, don’t
> mind it :)
> [Wed Mar 18 20:22:29 2015] <klaus_trainer>: Currently there are no tests
> that we can use right now.
> [Wed Mar 18 20:22:35 2015] <robertkowalski>: i am happy to help out
> jan____ if klaus_trainer has questions, as i did that for mango with jan____
> [Wed Mar 18 20:22:37 2015] <Wohali>: jan____: as always the hard thing is
> that many plugins make assumptions that aren't cluster-safe, e.g. being the
> "only" node involved in something, making assumptions about locking things
> down, etc.
> [Wed Mar 18 20:23:19 2015] <jan____>: Wohali: yeah, looking forward how
> klaus_trainer is solving this :)
> [Wed Mar 18 20:23:23 2015] <Wohali>: yay
> [Wed Mar 18 20:23:40 2015] <Wohali>: i'd say get the ip clearance done,
> put in a branch, hopefully clean up for official 2.0 release
> [Wed Mar 18 20:24:20 2015] <Wohali>: anything else?
> [Wed Mar 18 20:24:32 2015] <klaus_trainer>: Sounds good. I'm definitely
> willing to do more work on it assuming that we can integrate it.
> [Wed Mar 18 20:24:38 2015] <Wohali>: yay
> [Wed Mar 18 20:24:40 2015] <Wohali>: moving on
> ## Google Summer of Code (GSoC) ##
> [Wed Mar 18 20:24:46 2015] <robertkowalski>: shall i kick off a vote on
> the dev-ml for the codebase?
> [Wed Mar 18 20:24:51 2015] <jan____>: in addition, would say this isn’t
> blocking 2,0
> [Wed Mar 18 20:25:06 2015] <Wohali>: agreed, not a 2.0 blocker, get it in
> a branch and put in 2.0 if we can make it sane
> [Wed Mar 18 20:25:23 2015] <jan____>: robertkowalski: +1
> [Wed Mar 18 20:25:49 2015] <robertkowalski>: ok
> [Wed Mar 18 20:26:04 2015] <robertkowalski>: so we are particiapting in
> this years google summer of code!
> [Wed Mar 18 20:26:17 2015] <jan____>: #action robertkowalski to start vote
> for couchperuser
> [Wed Mar 18 20:26:22 2015] <jan____>: \o/
> [Wed Mar 18 20:26:38 2015] <klaus_trainer>: Yay!
> [Wed Mar 18 20:26:48 2015] <robertkowalski>: Ndeeshaan and Buddhika are
> also here today
> [Wed Mar 18 20:27:13 2015] <robertkowalski>: I think we have 5 students
> that are interested
> [Wed Mar 18 20:27:38 2015] <robertkowalski>: and the deadline for the
> proposals is in 1-2weeks
> [Wed Mar 18 20:28:12 2015] <Ndeeshaan>: 27 th of March is the deadline
> precisely :)
> [Wed Mar 18 20:28:46 2015] <robertkowalski>: we are still searching for
> mentors, jan____ is mentoring the queryserver protocol improvements, and i
> am mentoring for fauxton
> [Wed Mar 18 20:29:19 2015] <robertkowalski>: but more mentors would be
> even better! :)
> [Wed Mar 18 20:29:20 2015] <Wohali>: i'm sorry that i can't volunteer this
> time
> [Wed Mar 18 20:30:11 2015] <robertkowalski>: Buddhika: I will look for a
> template for the proposal tonight for you and Ndeeshaan
> [Wed Mar 18 20:30:24 2015] <robertkowalski>: and the other students
> [Wed Mar 18 20:30:40 2015] <Buddhika>: That would be great
> [Wed Mar 18 20:30:46 2015] <jan____>: Wohali: do not worry! <3
> [Wed Mar 18 20:30:48 2015] <robertkowalski>: Wohali: no worries! next year!
> [Wed Mar 18 20:31:20 2015] <Ndeeshaan>: robertkowalski: Thanks a lot
> [Wed Mar 18 20:31:36 2015] <robertkowalski>: we are also happy to help
> with the proposals, at least where we can
> [Wed Mar 18 20:32:25 2015] <robertkowalski>: i think thats it so far
> [Wed Mar 18 20:32:32 2015] <Buddhika>: We'll try to prepare draft
> proposals as soon as possible.
> [Wed Mar 18 20:32:48 2015] <Buddhika>: We have one week to refine them.
> [Wed Mar 18 20:33:27 2015] <robertkowalski>: cool!
> [Wed Mar 18 20:33:38 2015] <Ndeeshaan>: I have completed my draft proposal
> and I can send it :)
> [Wed Mar 18 20:34:17 2015] <robertkowalski>: awesome!
> ## couchdb-www / www@c.a.o ##
> [Wed Mar 18 20:35:49 2015] <jan____>: we have a new git repo couchdb-www
> that infra is testing git-based website publishing
> [Wed Mar 18 20:37:10 2015] <jan____>: it isn’t 100% live yet, but the EU
> mirror of the web server is already backed by it. So if we now want to make
> any changes, we have to do it in SVN and git, but only for a short while,
> until more projects signed up to use git and INFRA moves us over fully
> [Wed Mar 18 20:37:34 2015] <robertkowalski>: jan____: \o/
> [Wed Mar 18 20:37:43 2015] <jan____>: in addition, we agreed to set up a
> www@c.a.o mailing list and it exists now, but nothing is happening. Does
> anyone have any insight as to why?
> [Wed Mar 18 20:37:45 2015] <robertkowalski>: jan____: is it on github?
> [Wed Mar 18 20:38:11 2015] <jan____>: no github mirror yet
> [Wed Mar 18 20:38:14 2015] <robertkowalski>: jan____: i guess everyone is
> waiting for github to send PRs
> [Wed Mar 18 20:38:49 2015] <jan____>: yeah, I’ve been pushy, but infra is
> also busy with other stuff
> [Wed Mar 18 20:39:26 2015] <robertkowalski>: jan____: at least i am doing
> that (waiting) before writing to www@ that we have git now
> [Wed Mar 18 20:39:30 2015] <jan____>: but about www@ — what are we
> waiting for?
> [Wed Mar 18 20:40:45 2015] <robertkowalski>: arun_agarwal is also
> subscribed waiting for github prs
> [Wed Mar 18 20:41:31 2015] <robertkowalski>: at least i asked him to do
> that
> [Wed Mar 18 20:42:07 2015] <arun_agarwal>: robertkowalski: yup, true
> [Wed Mar 18 20:42:09 2015] <jan____>: ok, thanks!
> ## couchdbdocker ##
> [Wed Mar 18 20:45:24 2015] <jan____>: just FYI: The couchdb-docker project
> is also being imported from github, necessary paperwork on their end has
> been filed, next step is getting the IP clearance going, will do that this
> week.
> [Wed Mar 18 20:45:37 2015] <Kxepal>: \o/
> ## nano import ##
> [Wed Mar 18 20:47:13 2015] <jan____>: Garren has been sorting out the
> legal paperwork for nano, and we are close. once that is all done, we’ll
> start the usual import procedure, I’m also shepherding that.
> ## _bulk_revs  ##
> [Wed Mar 18 20:48:53 2015] <jan____>: I’m interested in optmising
> replication performance using _bulk_revs / COUCHDB-2310
> [Wed Mar 18 20:49:25 2015] <jan____>: we are basically waiting for a patch
> from benoitc, but if that doesn’t materialise, I’ll look at doing it from
> scratch.
> [Wed Mar 18 20:49:38 2015] <Kxepal>: jan____: I had a talk with him today
> [Wed Mar 18 20:49:40 2015] <Wohali>: +1 to try from scratch
> [Wed Mar 18 20:49:51 2015] <Kxepal>: he'll try to find a time to make it
> soon
> [Wed Mar 18 20:49:53 2015] <jan____>: Kxepal: any news?
> [Wed Mar 18 20:50:15 2015] <jan____>: Kxepal: ok, nice to hear.
> [Wed Mar 18 20:50:46 2015] <robertkowalski>: Kxepal: did he mention a
> specific timeframe in that he wants to try to find time?
> [Wed Mar 18 20:50:50 2015] <jan____>: I have a week or two before I can
> look into it proper, so that would be my cutoff date
> [Wed Mar 18 20:51:23 2015] <robertkowalski>: jan____: ah ok, good idea
> [Wed Mar 18 20:51:24 2015] <Kxepal>: robertkowalski: no, but that's in his
> priority list todo for couchdb now as I understood.
> [Wed Mar 18 20:52:03 2015] <Kxepal>: so let's give him a little bit time
> to finish the job
> [Wed Mar 18 20:52:13 2015] <jan____>: k
> ## 2.0 ##
> [Wed Mar 18 20:54:19 2015] <robertkowalski>: i was one week away but i
> think nothing has happened for 2.0, right?
> [Wed Mar 18 20:54:51 2015] <robertkowalski>: i still did not have time to
> work on my items, blocked by mango and other stuff
> [Wed Mar 18 20:54:59 2015] <jan____>: small things, as far as I can see
> [Wed Mar 18 20:55:02 2015] <Kxepal>: robertkowalski: nothing criminal,
> right
> [Wed Mar 18 20:55:52 2015] <jan____>: I did some local hacking on the
> build/packaging stuff, but need to find more time, nothing to show yet
> [Wed Mar 18 20:56:22 2015] <robertkowalski>: jan____: can i send you a pr
> with my script that pulls names out of the subrepos?
> [Wed Mar 18 20:56:41 2015] <robertkowalski>: i talked to several people
> and they all said we don't need the number of commits
> [Wed Mar 18 20:57:09 2015] <jan____>: just commit to my branch
> [Wed Mar 18 20:57:17 2015] <robertkowalski>: because the exact number of
> commits is broken as some commmits are still in the old couchdb master
> branch, some not
> [Wed Mar 18 20:57:34 2015] <arun_agarwal>: jan____: is there any jira
> ticket where the hack steps are documented?
> [Wed Mar 18 20:58:00 2015] <jan____>: arun_agarwal: which hack steps
> specifically?
> [Wed Mar 18 20:58:15 2015] <arun_agarwal>: jan____: on build/packaging
> stuff.
> [Wed Mar 18 20:59:02 2015] <arun_agarwal>: jan____: was just curious,
> nothing specific :)
> [Wed Mar 18 20:59:17 2015] <jan____>: arun_agarwal: hm, there isn‘t much
> to explain
> [Wed Mar 18 20:59:36 2015] <jan____>: arun_agarwal: I’m currently working
> here https://github.com/apache/couchdb/pull/302
> [Wed Mar 18 20:59:39 2015] <arun_agarwal>: jan____: ohk. I see, please go
> ahead.
> [Wed Mar 18 20:59:58 2015] <jan____>: there is some feedback that I need
> to incorporate
> [Wed Mar 18 21:00:22 2015] <jan____>: and I think I’m blocked by a cyclic
> dependency, but I’ll figure it out. Might have to rename ./configure to
> ./bootstrap
> [Wed Mar 18 21:00:34 2015] <jan____>: or strip some stuff from ./configure
> and move it into a ./bootstrap, but not 100% sure yet
> [Wed Mar 18 21:00:58 2015] <jan____>: anything else on 2.0?
> [Wed Mar 18 21:00:58 2015] <arun_agarwal>: jan____: sure.
> [Wed Mar 18 21:02:06 2015] <robertkowalski>: oh sebastianrothbuc you write
> "BTW: so did copying in 1.6.1 files, calling them from local port,
> replicating them up to the cluster port." - does that fix COUCHDB-2593
> [Wed Mar 18 21:02:09 2015] <robertkowalski>: ?
> [Wed Mar 18 21:02:28 2015] <robertkowalski>:
> https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COUCHDB-2593 - maybe you can take a
> look later
> [Wed Mar 18 21:03:03 2015] <sebastianrothbuc>: at least I tried to destroy
> something in such a setup (i.e. copy "old" 1.6.1 .couch files into the 2.0
> data dir
> [Wed Mar 18 21:03:05 2015] <sebastianrothbuc>: but it just works
> [Wed Mar 18 21:03:10 2015] <sebastianrothbuc>: you get the databases on
> the local port
> [Wed Mar 18 21:03:19 2015] <sebastianrothbuc>: you can create one (same
> name) on the cluster port
> [Wed Mar 18 21:03:20 2015] <sebastianrothbuc>: replicate
> [Wed Mar 18 21:03:22 2015] <sebastianrothbuc>: and that's it
> [Wed Mar 18 21:03:23 2015] <jan____>: I’d like to start looking at running
> the 1.x JS test suite against master, so we can see how compatible 1.x and
> 2.0 are going to be.
> [Wed Mar 18 21:03:42 2015] <jan____>: This will require some changes and
> reorganisation to the tests, but I think it’ll be very worth it, if we want
> to make upgrades as painless as possible
> [Wed Mar 18 21:04:02 2015] <jan____>: (nice)
> [Wed Mar 18 21:04:10 2015] <Kxepal>: jan____: js test suite need in global
> refactoring, since it still remember the days when it ran from browsers
> [Wed Mar 18 21:04:30 2015] <sebastianrothbuc>: can't we run it from
> browser again?
> [Wed Mar 18 21:04:38 2015] <Kxepal>: "some changes" may be not a trivial
> to made
> [Wed Mar 18 21:04:59 2015] <Kxepal>: sebastianrothbuc: no, because some
> browsers (I didn't mention chome) are buggy on some cases
> [Wed Mar 18 21:05:07 2015] <jan____>: I know there was a lot of work on
> other sort of tests as well, but as far as I can tell, they are all
> tailored for 2.0/master. I’m specifically interested in 1.x compat and I
> think the JS tests cover the API well and have yet only run against the
> local interface
> [Wed Mar 18 21:05:15 2015] <jan____>: why does it need a major refactor?
> [Wed Mar 18 21:05:37 2015] <jan____>: they run in browsrs and on the CLI
> [Wed Mar 18 21:05:46 2015] <Kxepal>: jan____: because it's full of terror
> if you're trying to figure why test fails.
> [Wed Mar 18 21:06:06 2015] <jan____>: all we need to do is point them at
> the cluster port and disable the ones that we don’t expect to work (_config
> etc)
> [Wed Mar 18 21:06:23 2015] <jan____>: Kxepal: I’ve lived in that world for
> many years, I’m not afraid
> [Wed Mar 18 21:06:37 2015] <jan____>: and I don’t want to refactor the
> tests because I specificallyw ant to run out 1.x suite against 2.0
> [Wed Mar 18 21:06:44 2015] <jan____>: once we are over, we can do whatever
> [Wed Mar 18 21:06:52 2015] <Kxepal>: jan____: not sure to hug you or call
> a hero
> [Wed Mar 18 21:07:19 2015] <jan____>: lol <3
> [Wed Mar 18 21:07:54 2015] <jan____>: I’mma bring this up on dev@
> separately to hear from folks
> [Wed Mar 18 21:08:12 2015] <Kxepal>: good call
> [Wed Mar 18 21:08:28 2015] <jan____>: I think that will flush out some
> more things we need to do, but after that, we are getting closer to the
> final stretch
> [Wed Mar 18 21:09:00 2015] <robertkowalski>: short question reagrding the
> logo process
> [Wed Mar 18 21:09:50 2015] <robertkowalski>: i talked to sean and he would
> take the proposed position on the mailinglist. can i propose him or how
> does it work?
> [Wed Mar 18 21:10:53 2015] <jan____>: what do you mean “proposed position“
> [Wed Mar 18 21:11:46 2015] <robertkowalski>: nslater sent an mail to the
> mailing list:
> http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/couchdb-marketing/201503.mbox/%3CCAPaJBx4gf-yAnMPDGrKnWuN-FsC0dmuBeNLvaVpcDCyAr5CYGQ%40mail.gmail.com%3E
> [Wed Mar 18 21:12:08 2015] <robertkowalski>: "The community selects a
> person or person(s) to
> [Wed Mar 18 21:12:09 2015] <robertkowalski>: do the design. That person is
> then entrusted to do the stuff. No
> [Wed Mar 18 21:12:10 2015] <robertkowalski>: voting necessary.
> [Wed Mar 18 21:12:11 2015] <robertkowalski>: "
> [Wed Mar 18 21:13:26 2015] <Kxepal>: robertkowalski: ok, but we have a
> group of people that made a logo. each own with own vision and arguments.
> what's now?
> [Wed Mar 18 21:13:31 2015] <jan____>: good question, I think yeah, just
> nominate him
> [Wed Mar 18 21:13:54 2015] <jan____>: design by committee!
> [Wed Mar 18 21:14:11 2015] <robertkowalski>: Kxepal: so far no one got
> nominated by anyone
> [Wed Mar 18 21:14:28 2015] <robertkowalski>: but i am also not sure what
> we do if we have multiple nominations.
> [Wed Mar 18 21:14:32 2015] <robertkowalski>: hmm..
> [Wed Mar 18 21:14:39 2015] <nslater>: I'm at a gig
> [Wed Mar 18 21:14:47 2015] <robertkowalski>: Wohali: what do you think?
> [Wed Mar 18 21:14:50 2015] <nslater>: just to say: my email was just a
> recommendation
> [Wed Mar 18 21:14:56 2015] <jan____>: I’m in favour of letting a
> professional designer take this on. They can work with the other proposal
> people to figure out which way to go
> [Wed Mar 18 21:15:01 2015] <nslater>: let's do whatever makes sense
> [Wed Mar 18 21:15:02 2015] <jan____>: ultimately the PMC decides
> [Wed Mar 18 21:15:08 2015] <jan____>: nslater: get out of here
> [Wed Mar 18 21:15:10 2015] <nslater>: my words are not golden
> [Wed Mar 18 21:15:13 2015] <jan____>: nslater: <3
> [Wed Mar 18 21:15:16 2015] <nslater>: :)
> [Wed Mar 18 21:15:31 2015] <nslater>: cya!
> [Wed Mar 18 21:15:53 2015] <jan____>: what is important: we will hurt
> people’s feelings, we need to be prepared to do this
> [Wed Mar 18 21:16:01 2015] <jan____>: this isn’t everybody throws their
> patch/+1 in
> [Wed Mar 18 21:16:20 2015] <Wohali>: sorry i was lying down
> [Wed Mar 18 21:16:39 2015] <Wohali>: can someone give me a quick question
> as to "what do you think" means?
> [Wed Mar 18 21:17:21 2015] <robertkowalski>: Wohali: we are unsure about
> the process regarding the logo and how to proceed with the many submissions
> [Wed Mar 18 21:17:31 2015] <jan____>: I like Noah’s suggestion, the PMC is
> the customer and makes the final call, they work with a nominated designer
> that works out one or more proposals with the other community folks.
> [Wed Mar 18 21:17:40 2015] <jan____>: community gets to vote on
> preferences, PMC makes a call.
> [Wed Mar 18 21:18:03 2015] <jan____>: I have no qualms about having
> Sean/Cloudant be that designer
> [Wed Mar 18 21:18:04 2015] <Wohali>: agree, PMC is the ajudicator and
> probably will result in a PMC vote. We need to review the bylaws on this
> one to ensure there's appropriate precedent there
> [Wed Mar 18 21:19:16 2015] <robertkowalski>: Wohali: you mean adding that
> process to the bylaws?
> [Wed Mar 18 21:19:21 2015] <Kxepal>: jan____: mmm...I'd like to argue you,
> but not now
> [Wed Mar 18 21:19:39 2015] <Wohali>: robertkowalski: all standards re:
> voting are in the bylaws. not sure if this is covered.
> [Wed Mar 18 21:19:47 2015] <jan____>: Kxepal: let’s do it on marketing@ —
> I’ll reply there
> [Wed Mar 18 21:19:52 2015] <Kxepal>: jan____: ok
> [Wed Mar 18 21:19:54 2015] <Wohali>: as for picking a designer/design
> group, well, that's ultimately also a PMC decision but with community input
> [Wed Mar 18 21:20:13 2015] <Wohali>: in general in the past I've seen more
> of a "
> [Wed Mar 18 21:20:15 2015] <Wohali>: oops
> [Wed Mar 18 21:20:23 2015] <Wohali>: community vote on these things. We
> picked the top 5, what do you think?
> [Wed Mar 18 21:20:27 2015] <jan____>: I’d say as per
> http://couchdb.apache.org/bylaws.html#types this is the “Create or amend
> official document” category
> [Wed Mar 18 21:20:42 2015] <Wohali>: true, logo is an official thing
> [Wed Mar 18 21:21:10 2015] <Wohali>: tthat says the vote would be on the
> dev list, lazy 2/3rds, with PMC members only being  binding votes
> [Wed Mar 18 21:21:15 2015] <Wohali>: taht is consistent
> [Wed Mar 18 21:21:34 2015] <Wohali>: but deciding how we get that logo
> done is a non-technical decision which is up to the committers
> [Wed Mar 18 21:21:58 2015] <jan____>: maybe we can simplify things and
> just have anyone (including Sean) propose their work, we do a community
> preference vote and then PMC decided
> [Wed Mar 18 21:22:11 2015] <jan____>: no need to make a designer BDFL for
> the logo, all designers are BDFL for their proposal
> [Wed Mar 18 21:22:12 2015] <Wohali>: i think that's fair, as long as a set
> timeline happens
> [Wed Mar 18 21:22:27 2015] <Wohali>: e.g. all submissions by march 31
> [Wed Mar 18 21:22:34 2015] <Wohali>: public vote by april 15
> [Wed Mar 18 21:22:36 2015] <jan____>: Wohali: I’d say how the designers
> make the logo is up t them :)
> [Wed Mar 18 21:22:39 2015] <Wohali>: pmc decision by april 30
> [Wed Mar 18 21:22:44 2015] <Kxepal>: jan____: Wohali wise ideas
> [Wed Mar 18 21:22:54 2015] <Wohali>: given we've had a lot of submissions
> this gives just enough time to pick your best submissions
> [Wed Mar 18 21:23:01 2015] <Wohali>: we could even say 1 submission per
> designer
> [Wed Mar 18 21:23:01 2015] <jan____>: as long as we have the option to
> abort if nothing’s good, I’d be fine with that
> [Wed Mar 18 21:23:11 2015] <Wohali>: pmc vote could include "d onothing,"
> sure
> [Wed Mar 18 21:23:22 2015] <jan____>: I like that
> [Wed Mar 18 21:23:25 2015] <robertkowalski>: Wohali: great input!
> [Wed Mar 18 21:23:29 2015] <jan____>: get an alter ego if you want to have
> 2
> [Wed Mar 18 21:23:38 2015] <Wohali>: hehe, no sock puppets please
> [Wed Mar 18 21:23:50 2015] <jan____>: cool, that sounds like we have a plan
> [Wed Mar 18 21:23:59 2015] <jan____>: robertkowalski: do you feel like
> writing this up?
> [Wed Mar 18 21:24:03 2015] <jan____>: :)
> [Wed Mar 18 21:24:07 2015] <robertkowalski>: Wohali: thank you so much! :)
> [Wed Mar 18 21:24:12 2015] <Wohali>: it's what I do.
> [Wed Mar 18 21:24:30 2015] <robertkowalski>: jan____: if you could give me
> a review before i send to the ML
> [Wed Mar 18 21:24:45 2015] <robertkowalski>: jan____: then for sure!
> [Wed Mar 18 21:24:50 2015] <jan____>: robertkowalski: always!
> [Wed Mar 18 21:25:23 2015] <jan____>: Wohali: ^5 — thanks for talking this
> through, I think we’ve got something here.
> [Wed Mar 18 21:25:58 2015] <arun_agarwal>: Wohali: one quick question.
> [Wed Mar 18 21:26:04 2015] <robertkowalski>: one question: if some folks
> (commiters, pmc) are against changing the logo
> [Wed Mar 18 21:26:18 2015] <robertkowalski>: do they vote -1 in the
> committer vote?
> [Wed Mar 18 21:26:26 2015] <Wohali>: no no the committer vote is "vote for
> your favourite"
> [Wed Mar 18 21:26:31 2015] <Wohali>: and we include the original logo as
> an option
> [Wed Mar 18 21:26:45 2015] <robertkowalski>: Wohali: ah thank you!
> [Wed Mar 18 21:26:47 2015] <Wohali>: then the PMC vote is to accept/reject
> the suggestios of the commitmters
> [Wed Mar 18 21:26:50 2015] <Wohali>: arun_agarwal: go ahead
> [Wed Mar 18 21:27:29 2015] <arun_agarwal>: Wohali: which team decides the
> genuinty of the logo that people are proposing.. the selected logo design
> could be "inspired" from some
> [Wed Mar 18 21:27:35 2015] <arun_agarwal>: other logo and that could be
> problem later on.
> [Wed Mar 18 21:27:48 2015] <arun_agarwal>: do we have a team which brings
> this as intellectual property?
> [Wed Mar 18 21:28:15 2015] <Wohali>: Apache does have legal council who
> can help review these things, yes, as we intend to file the new logo under
> trademark / service mark law
> [Wed Mar 18 21:28:18 2015] <jan____>: #action robertkowalski writes a text
> about the process
> [Wed Mar 18 21:28:31 2015] <jan____>: arun_agarwal: there is a trademarks
> group at Apache, we’d run the final logo by them
> [Wed Mar 18 21:29:20 2015] <arun_agarwal>: Wohali, jan____:  hmm I see..
> that would be great, because while it unites us, we probably won't have lot
> of time redoing this :D
> [Wed Mar 18 21:29:46 2015] <jan____>: arun_agarwal: good call! :)
> [Wed Mar 18 21:30:17 2015] <Wohali>: yes i think that happens after the
> committer vote
> [Wed Mar 18 21:30:21 2015] <jan____>: fwiw, the current logo is
> dangerously close to the German soccer league:
> https://encrypted.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=bundeliga&tbs=imgo:1
> [Wed Mar 18 21:30:25 2015] <Wohali>: because if #1 is a problem, #2 in the
> ranking might not be
> [Wed Mar 18 21:30:34 2015] <Wohali>: jan, haha
> [Wed Mar 18 21:30:41 2015] <Wohali>: i don't fancy fighting FIFA!
> [Wed Mar 18 21:30:52 2015] <jan____>: lol yeah, no
> [Wed Mar 18 21:32:03 2015] <Kxepal>: jan____: where do you see couch on
> bundesliga logo? they aren't close.
> [Wed Mar 18 21:32:12 2015] <Wohali>: Kxepal: it's a joke, i think
> [Wed Mar 18 21:32:18 2015] <jan____>: huh?
> [Wed Mar 18 21:32:32 2015] <Wohali>: i don't think they'd seriously come
> after us, but i do see the similarity
> [Wed Mar 18 21:32:40 2015] <Kxepal>: sorry, seems like my humor process
> died
> [Wed Mar 18 21:32:42 2015] <Wohali>: but, it might be hard to file for the
> trademark
> [Wed Mar 18 21:32:49 2015] <jan____>: white shape with pronounced legs on
> red background
> [Wed Mar 18 21:32:54 2015] <jan____>: totally close.
> [Wed Mar 18 21:32:59 2015] <Kxepal>: jan____: too abstract description
> [Wed Mar 18 21:33:14 2015] <jan____>: it is worse when you see it in
> real-life here, I have one on my commute and it gets me every time
> [Wed Mar 18 21:33:29 2015] <jan____>: they aren’t pixel-perfect copies,
> but if you see one casually trust me, you will think CouchDB :)
> [Wed Mar 18 21:33:35 2015] <jan____>: all this is off topic for now
> [Wed Mar 18 21:33:53 2015] <Kxepal>: yea, and that's a question for
> lawyers (:
> [Wed Mar 18 21:33:58 2015] <jan____>: let’s wrap this :)
> [Wed Mar 18 21:34:08 2015] <rkowalski__>: \o/
> [Wed Mar 18 21:34:44 2015] <arun_agarwal>: if all done, I have one quick
> point.
> [Wed Mar 18 21:34:52 2015] <jan____>: shoot
> [Wed Mar 18 21:34:59 2015] <arun_agarwal>: can someone fill the red TBD @
> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/COUCHDB/Installing+CouchDB
> [Wed Mar 18 21:35:28 2015] <arun_agarwal>: few new tech have introduced
> starting 2.0.  should we add that or get rid of this table?
> [Wed Mar 18 21:35:56 2015] <jan____>: arun_agarwal: ICU/Curl: same as 1.x
> / autoconf/make no longer required
> [Wed Mar 18 21:36:16 2015] <Wohali>: i don't think curl is still required
> in 2.0
> [Wed Mar 18 21:36:27 2015] <jan____>: incorrect
> [Wed Mar 18 21:36:29 2015] <Kxepal>: Wohali: it need for tests iirc
> [Wed Mar 18 21:36:30 2015] <Wohali>: at least, i think i removed the req't
> for that in dbcore prior to the merge?
> [Wed Mar 18 21:36:31 2015] <jan____>: :)
> [Wed Mar 18 21:36:38 2015] <Wohali>: oh. boo. guess that didn't get merged.
> [Wed Mar 18 21:36:54 2015] <jan____>: still needed for CLI JS tests
> [Wed Mar 18 21:36:59 2015] <jan____>: it is optional
> [Wed Mar 18 21:37:00 2015] <robertkowalski>: we have this wiki page,
> https://github.com/apache/couchdb/blob/master/INSTALL.Unix and the
> official docs
> [Wed Mar 18 21:37:01 2015] <Wohali>: k
> [Wed Mar 18 21:37:04 2015] <jan____>: and off by default
> [Wed Mar 18 21:37:08 2015] <robertkowalski>: oh and
> https://github.com/apache/couchdb/blob/master/README-DEV
> [Wed Mar 18 21:37:10 2015] <Wohali>: yeah no auto*, but we need rebar now
> [Wed Mar 18 21:37:21 2015] <Wohali>: and there are the extra req'ts for
> building fauxton
> [Wed Mar 18 21:37:29 2015] <arun_agarwal>: rebar and nodejs?
> [Wed Mar 18 21:37:32 2015] <jan____>: yeah, as mentioned on the ML, I’m
> worried about duplication of content here
> [Wed Mar 18 21:37:35 2015] <Wohali>: and npm
> [Wed Mar 18 21:37:35 2015] <robertkowalski>: and they are all in different
> way outdated and up to date
> [Wed Mar 18 21:37:46 2015] <robertkowalski>: can we remove some?
> [Wed Mar 18 21:37:51 2015] <jan____>: and grunt etc.
> [Wed Mar 18 21:37:59 2015] <jan____>: see the fauxton readme for fauxton
> deps
> [Wed Mar 18 21:38:14 2015] <arun_agarwal>: yes, we have so many links and
> many-many are dead
> [Wed Mar 18 21:38:18 2015] <robertkowalski>: fauxton does not need a
> globally installed grunt soon any more
> [Wed Mar 18 21:38:25 2015] <jan____>:
> http://couchdb.apache.org/developer-preview/2.0/ shows what is needed
> [Wed Mar 18 21:38:35 2015] <arun_agarwal>: for one topic we should ideally
> have one doc and all other should be soft link to the detailed one
> [Wed Mar 18 21:38:37 2015] <jan____>: we should only keep INSTALL.md and
> DEVELOPER.md — everything else should link to them
> [Wed Mar 18 21:38:38 2015] <arun_agarwal>: :)
> [Wed Mar 18 21:38:47 2015] <sebastianrothbuc>: +1 on that
> [Wed Mar 18 21:38:58 2015] <arun_agarwal>: jan____: +1
> [Wed Mar 18 21:39:00 2015] <jan____>: robertkowalski: nice use of future
> past tense there :D
> [Wed Mar 18 21:39:35 2015] <Kxepal>: jan____: and one for docs, or
> transform *.md into .rst to make them inclusive for docs
> [Wed Mar 18 21:39:57 2015] <Wohali>: agree
> [Wed Mar 18 21:40:17 2015] <jan____>: Kxepal: then we have tow places again
> [Wed Mar 18 21:40:31 2015] <arun_agarwal>: Kxepal: but that won't generate
> twiki?
> [Wed Mar 18 21:40:37 2015] <Kxepal>: jan____: after transform we don't
> [Wed Mar 18 21:40:46 2015] <arun_agarwal>: oh sorry.. got it
> [Wed Mar 18 21:40:53 2015] <jan____>: then we should put it all in the
> .rst docs and have INSTALL.rst and DEVELOPER.rst generated from there at
> build time
> [Wed Mar 18 21:40:54 2015] <arun_agarwal>: twiki will just link to these
> markdowns
> [Wed Mar 18 21:41:07 2015] <jan____>: arun_agarwal: let’s not also add
> this to the wiki, we are trying to consolidate, not spread :
> [Wed Mar 18 21:41:26 2015] <jan____>: :)
> [Wed Mar 18 21:41:31 2015] <jan____>: right :)
> [Wed Mar 18 21:41:31 2015] <arun_agarwal>: jan____: yup.. understood and
> agree .. my bad...:)
> [Wed Mar 18 21:41:49 2015] <jan____>: no worries
> [Wed Mar 18 21:41:52 2015] <Kxepal>: jan____: mmm..you suggest to build
> the couchdb, make the docs first? (:
> [Wed Mar 18 21:42:30 2015] <jan____>: the requirements are: we need two
> top level source tree files that we can have in tarballs (ideally also git)
> and two places in the docs where the user and dev setup are explained.
> [Wed Mar 18 21:42:48 2015] <sebastianrothbuc>: can one not link to these
> docs on github and that's it?
> [Wed Mar 18 21:43:00 2015] <jan____>: maybe we can make it that the top
> level INSTALL.rst and DEVELOPER.rst are included in the docs build
> [Wed Mar 18 21:43:04 2015] <Kxepal>: sebastianrothbuc: no internet case
> [Wed Mar 18 21:43:06 2015] <jan____>: that would be easiest
> [Wed Mar 18 21:43:16 2015] <robertkowalski>: sebastianrothbuc: yes i would
> prefer that
> [Wed Mar 18 21:43:16 2015] <Kxepal>: jan____: yeap, clear
> [Wed Mar 18 21:43:28 2015] <jan____>: offlineofflineoffline :)
> [Wed Mar 18 21:43:50 2015] <jan____>: robertkowalski: no go, can’t be
> online
> [Wed Mar 18 21:43:57 2015] <jan____>: Kxepal: cool, let’s work on that
> [Wed Mar 18 21:44:09 2015] <jan____>: #action Kxepal and jan____ to figure
> out consolidation of install instructions
> [Wed Mar 18 21:44:30 2015] <Kxepal>: deal (:
> [Wed Mar 18 21:45:47 2015] <jan____>: ASFBot: meeting end
>
>
> Meeting ended at Wed Mar 18 21:45:47 2015
>



-- 
Cheers,
Madhuka Udantha
http://madhukaudantha.blogspot.com

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