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From ASF IRC Bot <asf...@urd.zones.apache.org>
Subject Summary of IRC Meeting in #couchdb-meeting
Date Wed, 18 Mar 2015 21:46:19 GMT
Summary of IRC Meeting in #couchdb-meeting at Wed Mar 18 20:01:39 2015:

Attendees: Wohali, arun_agarwal, Buddhika, Kxepal, Ndeeshaan, sebastianrothbuc, nslater, jan____,
klaus_trainer, robertkowalski, rkowalski__

- Preface
- fauxton status
- rcouch merge
- couchperuser
- Google Summer of Code (GSoC)
  - Action: robertkowalski to start vote for couchperuser
- couchdb-www / www@c.a.o
- couchdbdocker
- nano import
- _bulk_revs 
- 2.0
  - Action: robertkowalski writes a text about the process
  - Action: Kxepal and jan____ to figure out consolidation of install instructions


IRC log follows:

## Preface ##
[Wed Mar 18 20:02:48 2015] <robertkowalski>: I would like to welcome Ndeeshaan who participates
in this gsoc
[Wed Mar 18 20:02:55 2015] <robertkowalski>: :)
[Wed Mar 18 20:02:57 2015] <robertkowalski>: hi!
[Wed Mar 18 20:03:17 2015] <arun_agarwal>: I am also a first timer here :)
[Wed Mar 18 20:03:21 2015] <sebastianrothbuc>: great - welcome!
[Wed Mar 18 20:03:38 2015] <robertkowalski>: hi arun_agarwal! welcome!
[Wed Mar 18 20:03:55 2015] <arun_agarwal>: Hi Robert and everyone in the team.
[Wed Mar 18 20:04:15 2015] <jan____>: heya arun_agarwal & Ndeeshaan 
[Wed Mar 18 20:04:21 2015] <Ndeeshaan>: Hi all
[Wed Mar 18 20:04:51 2015] <Kxepal>: Ndeeshaan: arun_agarwal hi and welcome (:
[Wed Mar 18 20:07:56 2015] <jan____>: robertkowalski: wanna go with your topics?
[Wed Mar 18 20:08:08 2015] <robertkowalski>: ok!
## fauxton status ##
[Wed Mar 18 20:09:00 2015] <robertkowalski>: the fauxton testsuite (integration tests)
will be running on couchdb 2 soon, PR is already in review
[Wed Mar 18 20:09:34 2015] <robertkowalski>: for the mango interface that means that
we can write integration tests for it.
[Wed Mar 18 20:09:47 2015] <robertkowalski>: current status of mango: you can create
indexes and list them
[Wed Mar 18 20:10:04 2015] <robertkowalski>: garren currently works on rewriting the
all-docs-list to react
[Wed Mar 18 20:10:36 2015] <robertkowalski>: if you know fauxton, you will know that
the all-docs-list is a horrible, grown, godobject the refactor solves a lot of problems
[Wed Mar 18 20:11:16 2015] <jan____>: nice!
[Wed Mar 18 20:11:17 2015] <robertkowalski>: michelle rewrites activetasks in react
[Wed Mar 18 20:11:32 2015] <robertkowalski>: and we have a lot of smaller bugfixes in
the pipeline
[Wed Mar 18 20:12:14 2015] <robertkowalski>: it think that's it for fauxton, i expect
the first part of mango getting merged next week, behind a small feature-flip
[Wed Mar 18 20:12:22 2015] <robertkowalski>: so interested folks can test it already
[Wed Mar 18 20:12:33 2015] <robertkowalski>: and the code is integrated into master
[Wed Mar 18 20:12:49 2015] <jan____>: why a feature flip?
[Wed Mar 18 20:13:12 2015] <robertkowalski>: currently it is just possible to create
and list indexes
[Wed Mar 18 20:13:15 2015] <robertkowalski>: not to query
[Wed Mar 18 20:13:44 2015] <robertkowalski>: but i would like to integrate into master
early and don't want users think it is a bug and create jira tickets
[Wed Mar 18 20:13:53 2015] <robertkowalski>: + to
[Wed Mar 18 20:14:14 2015] <jan____>: got it, thanks!
[Wed Mar 18 20:14:19 2015] <robertkowalski>: http://locahlhost:8000/mydatabase?beta=enableQuery
[Wed Mar 18 20:14:30 2015] <robertkowalski>: and then the menu-point gets visible
[Wed Mar 18 20:15:25 2015] <jan____>: cool trick :)
## rcouch merge ##
[Wed Mar 18 20:15:50 2015] <robertkowalski>: jan____: yes, easy as pie but very useful
[Wed Mar 18 20:16:07 2015] <robertkowalski>: i was wondering what the status of the
rcouch merge is
[Wed Mar 18 20:16:22 2015] <robertkowalski>: and Kxepal answered on the ML that one
feature got merged, the others not
[Wed Mar 18 20:16:25 2015] <Wohali>: not sure rnewson or davisp are here to talk about
it
[Wed Mar 18 20:16:33 2015] <Kxepal>: robertkowalski: it's stalled. we need a hero and
benoitc to pick the features from those branch
[Wed Mar 18 20:16:52 2015] <Wohali>: some of the features are incompatible in their
current state, or are broken by clustering
[Wed Mar 18 20:17:17 2015] <Kxepal>: but some features are very useful like lagger configuration
[Wed Mar 18 20:17:25 2015] <robertkowalski>: hmmm... is it still supposed to land in
2.0?
[Wed Mar 18 20:17:33 2015] <Kxepal>: robertkowalski: partially
[Wed Mar 18 20:17:45 2015] <Wohali>: the logging configuration has been touched differently
on master with lager
[Wed Mar 18 20:17:46 2015] <Kxepal>: full merge wasn't in priority
[Wed Mar 18 20:18:15 2015] <Wohali>: i think making any more rcouch merge actions for
2.0 a priority will significantly delay its release
[Wed Mar 18 20:18:24 2015] <Wohali>: not saying there's not useful stuff but beware
scope creep!
[Wed Mar 18 20:18:55 2015] <robertkowalski>: fully agreed!
[Wed Mar 18 20:19:20 2015] <Wohali>: moving on unless there's more to say here
[Wed Mar 18 20:19:20 2015] <jan____>: yeah, I think we agreed on getting 2.0 out and
then port over more things
## couchperuser ##
[Wed Mar 18 20:19:43 2015] <robertkowalski>: klaus_trainer pinged me yesterday
[Wed Mar 18 20:20:18 2015] <robertkowalski>: he would like to move couchperuser to the
asf and would also like to maintain it
[Wed Mar 18 20:20:21 2015] <jan____>: Bob Ippolito wrote this little plugin that creates
a user DB when a user signs up.
[Wed Mar 18 20:20:31 2015] <jan____>: it’s small and useful and he’d be fine with
donating it to the ASF
[Wed Mar 18 20:20:40 2015] <robertkowalski>: thanks jan, sorry for not providing context
[Wed Mar 18 20:20:41 2015] <jan____>: I wouldn’t mind taking this on as an off-by-default
feature
[Wed Mar 18 20:21:04 2015] <jan____>: plus klaus is already working on making it for
2.0 etc.
[Wed Mar 18 20:21:09 2015] <Wohali>: +1, off-by-default, assuming there are some tests
added and it doesn't break in clustered mode
[Wed Mar 18 20:21:13 2015] <klaus_trainer>: See https://github.com/KlausTrainer/couchperuser
[Wed Mar 18 20:21:20 2015] <Kxepal>: I guess we need to run a vote and IP clearance
then
[Wed Mar 18 20:21:32 2015] <jan____>: I’d be happy to be the officer that runs the
import paperwork
[Wed Mar 18 20:21:49 2015] <Kxepal>: jan____: thank you a lot for that!
[Wed Mar 18 20:21:59 2015] <jan____>: Wohali: has tests, don’t know about cluster
mode yet, klaus_trainer?
[Wed Mar 18 20:22:22 2015] <Buddhika>: Hi peple :D
[Wed Mar 18 20:22:22 2015] <jan____>: been doing imports lately, don’t mind it :)
[Wed Mar 18 20:22:29 2015] <klaus_trainer>: Currently there are no tests that we can
use right now.
[Wed Mar 18 20:22:35 2015] <robertkowalski>: i am happy to help out jan____ if klaus_trainer
has questions, as i did that for mango with jan____ 
[Wed Mar 18 20:22:37 2015] <Wohali>: jan____: as always the hard thing is that many
plugins make assumptions that aren't cluster-safe, e.g. being the "only" node involved in
something, making assumptions about locking things down, etc.
[Wed Mar 18 20:23:19 2015] <jan____>: Wohali: yeah, looking forward how klaus_trainer
is solving this :)
[Wed Mar 18 20:23:23 2015] <Wohali>: yay
[Wed Mar 18 20:23:40 2015] <Wohali>: i'd say get the ip clearance done, put in a branch,
hopefully clean up for official 2.0 release
[Wed Mar 18 20:24:20 2015] <Wohali>: anything else?
[Wed Mar 18 20:24:32 2015] <klaus_trainer>: Sounds good. I'm definitely willing to do
more work on it assuming that we can integrate it.
[Wed Mar 18 20:24:38 2015] <Wohali>: yay
[Wed Mar 18 20:24:40 2015] <Wohali>: moving on
## Google Summer of Code (GSoC) ##
[Wed Mar 18 20:24:46 2015] <robertkowalski>: shall i kick off a vote on the dev-ml for
the codebase?
[Wed Mar 18 20:24:51 2015] <jan____>: in addition, would say this isn’t blocking 2,0
[Wed Mar 18 20:25:06 2015] <Wohali>: agreed, not a 2.0 blocker, get it in a branch and
put in 2.0 if we can make it sane
[Wed Mar 18 20:25:23 2015] <jan____>: robertkowalski: +1
[Wed Mar 18 20:25:49 2015] <robertkowalski>: ok
[Wed Mar 18 20:26:04 2015] <robertkowalski>: so we are particiapting in this years google
summer of code!
[Wed Mar 18 20:26:17 2015] <jan____>: #action robertkowalski to start vote for couchperuser
[Wed Mar 18 20:26:22 2015] <jan____>: \o/
[Wed Mar 18 20:26:38 2015] <klaus_trainer>: Yay!
[Wed Mar 18 20:26:48 2015] <robertkowalski>: Ndeeshaan and Buddhika are also here today
[Wed Mar 18 20:27:13 2015] <robertkowalski>: I think we have 5 students that are interested
[Wed Mar 18 20:27:38 2015] <robertkowalski>: and the deadline for the proposals is in
1-2weeks
[Wed Mar 18 20:28:12 2015] <Ndeeshaan>: 27 th of March is the deadline precisely :)
[Wed Mar 18 20:28:46 2015] <robertkowalski>: we are still searching for mentors, jan____
is mentoring the queryserver protocol improvements, and i am mentoring for fauxton
[Wed Mar 18 20:29:19 2015] <robertkowalski>: but more mentors would be even better!
:)
[Wed Mar 18 20:29:20 2015] <Wohali>: i'm sorry that i can't volunteer this time
[Wed Mar 18 20:30:11 2015] <robertkowalski>: Buddhika: I will look for a template for
the proposal tonight for you and Ndeeshaan 
[Wed Mar 18 20:30:24 2015] <robertkowalski>: and the other students
[Wed Mar 18 20:30:40 2015] <Buddhika>: That would be great 
[Wed Mar 18 20:30:46 2015] <jan____>: Wohali: do not worry! <3
[Wed Mar 18 20:30:48 2015] <robertkowalski>: Wohali: no worries! next year!
[Wed Mar 18 20:31:20 2015] <Ndeeshaan>: robertkowalski: Thanks a lot
[Wed Mar 18 20:31:36 2015] <robertkowalski>: we are also happy to help with the proposals,
at least where we can
[Wed Mar 18 20:32:25 2015] <robertkowalski>: i think thats it so far
[Wed Mar 18 20:32:32 2015] <Buddhika>: We'll try to prepare draft proposals as soon
as possible.
[Wed Mar 18 20:32:48 2015] <Buddhika>: We have one week to refine them.
[Wed Mar 18 20:33:27 2015] <robertkowalski>: cool!
[Wed Mar 18 20:33:38 2015] <Ndeeshaan>: I have completed my draft proposal and I can
send it :)
[Wed Mar 18 20:34:17 2015] <robertkowalski>: awesome!
## couchdb-www / www@c.a.o ##
[Wed Mar 18 20:35:49 2015] <jan____>: we have a new git repo couchdb-www that infra
is testing git-based website publishing
[Wed Mar 18 20:37:10 2015] <jan____>: it isn’t 100% live yet, but the EU mirror of
the web server is already backed by it. So if we now want to make any changes, we have to
do it in SVN and git, but only for a short while, until more projects signed up to use git
and INFRA moves us over fully
[Wed Mar 18 20:37:34 2015] <robertkowalski>: jan____: \o/
[Wed Mar 18 20:37:43 2015] <jan____>: in addition, we agreed to set up a www@c.a.o mailing
list and it exists now, but nothing is happening. Does anyone have any insight as to why?
[Wed Mar 18 20:37:45 2015] <robertkowalski>: jan____: is it on github?
[Wed Mar 18 20:38:11 2015] <jan____>: no github mirror yet
[Wed Mar 18 20:38:14 2015] <robertkowalski>: jan____: i guess everyone is waiting for
github to send PRs
[Wed Mar 18 20:38:49 2015] <jan____>: yeah, I’ve been pushy, but infra is also busy
with other stuff
[Wed Mar 18 20:39:26 2015] <robertkowalski>: jan____: at least i am doing that (waiting)
before writing to www@ that we have git now
[Wed Mar 18 20:39:30 2015] <jan____>: but about www@ — what are we waiting for?
[Wed Mar 18 20:40:45 2015] <robertkowalski>: arun_agarwal is also subscribed waiting
for github prs
[Wed Mar 18 20:41:31 2015] <robertkowalski>: at least i asked him to do that
[Wed Mar 18 20:42:07 2015] <arun_agarwal>: robertkowalski: yup, true
[Wed Mar 18 20:42:09 2015] <jan____>: ok, thanks!
## couchdbdocker ##
[Wed Mar 18 20:45:24 2015] <jan____>: just FYI: The couchdb-docker project is also being
imported from github, necessary paperwork on their end has been filed, next step is getting
the IP clearance going, will do that this week.
[Wed Mar 18 20:45:37 2015] <Kxepal>: \o/
## nano import ##
[Wed Mar 18 20:47:13 2015] <jan____>: Garren has been sorting out the legal paperwork
for nano, and we are close. once that is all done, we’ll start the usual import procedure,
I’m also shepherding that.
## _bulk_revs  ##
[Wed Mar 18 20:48:53 2015] <jan____>: I’m interested in optmising replication performance
using _bulk_revs / COUCHDB-2310
[Wed Mar 18 20:49:25 2015] <jan____>: we are basically waiting for a patch from benoitc,
but if that doesn’t materialise, I’ll look at doing it from scratch.
[Wed Mar 18 20:49:38 2015] <Kxepal>: jan____: I had a talk with him today
[Wed Mar 18 20:49:40 2015] <Wohali>: +1 to try from scratch
[Wed Mar 18 20:49:51 2015] <Kxepal>: he'll try to find a time to make it soon
[Wed Mar 18 20:49:53 2015] <jan____>: Kxepal: any news?
[Wed Mar 18 20:50:15 2015] <jan____>: Kxepal: ok, nice to hear.
[Wed Mar 18 20:50:46 2015] <robertkowalski>: Kxepal: did he mention a specific timeframe
in that he wants to try to find time?
[Wed Mar 18 20:50:50 2015] <jan____>: I have a week or two before I can look into it
proper, so that would be my cutoff date
[Wed Mar 18 20:51:23 2015] <robertkowalski>: jan____: ah ok, good idea
[Wed Mar 18 20:51:24 2015] <Kxepal>: robertkowalski: no, but that's in his priority
list todo for couchdb now as I understood.
[Wed Mar 18 20:52:03 2015] <Kxepal>: so let's give him a little bit time to finish the
job
[Wed Mar 18 20:52:13 2015] <jan____>: k
## 2.0 ##
[Wed Mar 18 20:54:19 2015] <robertkowalski>: i was one week away but i think nothing
has happened for 2.0, right?
[Wed Mar 18 20:54:51 2015] <robertkowalski>: i still did not have time to work on my
items, blocked by mango and other stuff
[Wed Mar 18 20:54:59 2015] <jan____>: small things, as far as I can see
[Wed Mar 18 20:55:02 2015] <Kxepal>: robertkowalski: nothing criminal, right
[Wed Mar 18 20:55:52 2015] <jan____>: I did some local hacking on the build/packaging
stuff, but need to find more time, nothing to show yet
[Wed Mar 18 20:56:22 2015] <robertkowalski>: jan____: can i send you a pr with my script
that pulls names out of the subrepos?
[Wed Mar 18 20:56:41 2015] <robertkowalski>: i talked to several people and they all
said we don't need the number of commits
[Wed Mar 18 20:57:09 2015] <jan____>: just commit to my branch
[Wed Mar 18 20:57:17 2015] <robertkowalski>: because the exact number of commits is
broken as some commmits are still in the old couchdb master branch, some not
[Wed Mar 18 20:57:34 2015] <arun_agarwal>: jan____: is there any jira ticket where the
hack steps are documented?
[Wed Mar 18 20:58:00 2015] <jan____>: arun_agarwal: which hack steps specifically?
[Wed Mar 18 20:58:15 2015] <arun_agarwal>: jan____: on build/packaging stuff.
[Wed Mar 18 20:59:02 2015] <arun_agarwal>: jan____: was just curious, nothing specific
:)
[Wed Mar 18 20:59:17 2015] <jan____>: arun_agarwal: hm, there isn‘t much to explain
[Wed Mar 18 20:59:36 2015] <jan____>: arun_agarwal: I’m currently working here https://github.com/apache/couchdb/pull/302
[Wed Mar 18 20:59:39 2015] <arun_agarwal>: jan____: ohk. I see, please go ahead.
[Wed Mar 18 20:59:58 2015] <jan____>: there is some feedback that I need to incorporate
[Wed Mar 18 21:00:22 2015] <jan____>: and I think I’m blocked by a cyclic dependency,
but I’ll figure it out. Might have to rename ./configure to ./bootstrap
[Wed Mar 18 21:00:34 2015] <jan____>: or strip some stuff from ./configure and move
it into a ./bootstrap, but not 100% sure yet
[Wed Mar 18 21:00:58 2015] <jan____>: anything else on 2.0?
[Wed Mar 18 21:00:58 2015] <arun_agarwal>: jan____: sure. 
[Wed Mar 18 21:02:06 2015] <robertkowalski>: oh sebastianrothbuc you write "BTW: so
did copying in 1.6.1 files, calling them from local port, replicating them up to the cluster
port." - does that fix COUCHDB-2593
[Wed Mar 18 21:02:09 2015] <robertkowalski>: ?
[Wed Mar 18 21:02:28 2015] <robertkowalski>: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/COUCHDB-2593
- maybe you can take a look later
[Wed Mar 18 21:03:03 2015] <sebastianrothbuc>: at least I tried to destroy something
in such a setup (i.e. copy "old" 1.6.1 .couch files into the 2.0 data dir
[Wed Mar 18 21:03:05 2015] <sebastianrothbuc>: but it just works
[Wed Mar 18 21:03:10 2015] <sebastianrothbuc>: you get the databases on the local port
[Wed Mar 18 21:03:19 2015] <sebastianrothbuc>: you can create one (same name) on the
cluster port
[Wed Mar 18 21:03:20 2015] <sebastianrothbuc>: replicate
[Wed Mar 18 21:03:22 2015] <sebastianrothbuc>: and that's it
[Wed Mar 18 21:03:23 2015] <jan____>: I’d like to start looking at running the 1.x
JS test suite against master, so we can see how compatible 1.x and 2.0 are going to be. 
[Wed Mar 18 21:03:42 2015] <jan____>: This will require some changes and reorganisation
to the tests, but I think it’ll be very worth it, if we want to make upgrades as painless
as possible
[Wed Mar 18 21:04:02 2015] <jan____>: (nice)
[Wed Mar 18 21:04:10 2015] <Kxepal>: jan____: js test suite need in global refactoring,
since it still remember the days when it ran from browsers
[Wed Mar 18 21:04:30 2015] <sebastianrothbuc>: can't we run it from browser again?
[Wed Mar 18 21:04:38 2015] <Kxepal>: "some changes" may be not a trivial to made
[Wed Mar 18 21:04:59 2015] <Kxepal>: sebastianrothbuc: no, because some browsers (I
didn't mention chome) are buggy on some cases
[Wed Mar 18 21:05:07 2015] <jan____>: I know there was a lot of work on other sort of
tests as well, but as far as I can tell, they are all tailored for 2.0/master. I’m specifically
interested in 1.x compat and I think the JS tests cover the API well and have yet only run
against the local interface
[Wed Mar 18 21:05:15 2015] <jan____>: why does it need a major refactor?
[Wed Mar 18 21:05:37 2015] <jan____>: they run in browsrs and on the CLI
[Wed Mar 18 21:05:46 2015] <Kxepal>: jan____: because it's full of terror if you're
trying to figure why test fails.
[Wed Mar 18 21:06:06 2015] <jan____>: all we need to do is point them at the cluster
port and disable the ones that we don’t expect to work (_config etc)
[Wed Mar 18 21:06:23 2015] <jan____>: Kxepal: I’ve lived in that world for many years,
I’m not afraid
[Wed Mar 18 21:06:37 2015] <jan____>: and I don’t want to refactor the tests because
I specificallyw ant to run out 1.x suite against 2.0
[Wed Mar 18 21:06:44 2015] <jan____>: once we are over, we can do whatever
[Wed Mar 18 21:06:52 2015] <Kxepal>: jan____: not sure to hug you or call a hero
[Wed Mar 18 21:07:19 2015] <jan____>: lol <3
[Wed Mar 18 21:07:54 2015] <jan____>: I’mma bring this up on dev@ separately to hear
from folks
[Wed Mar 18 21:08:12 2015] <Kxepal>: good call
[Wed Mar 18 21:08:28 2015] <jan____>: I think that will flush out some more things we
need to do, but after that, we are getting closer to the final stretch
[Wed Mar 18 21:09:00 2015] <robertkowalski>: short question reagrding the logo process
[Wed Mar 18 21:09:50 2015] <robertkowalski>: i talked to sean and he would take the
proposed position on the mailinglist. can i propose him or how does it work?
[Wed Mar 18 21:10:53 2015] <jan____>: what do you mean “proposed position“
[Wed Mar 18 21:11:46 2015] <robertkowalski>: nslater sent an mail to the mailing list:
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/couchdb-marketing/201503.mbox/%3CCAPaJBx4gf-yAnMPDGrKnWuN-FsC0dmuBeNLvaVpcDCyAr5CYGQ%40mail.gmail.com%3E
[Wed Mar 18 21:12:08 2015] <robertkowalski>: "The community selects a person or person(s)
to
[Wed Mar 18 21:12:09 2015] <robertkowalski>: do the design. That person is then entrusted
to do the stuff. No
[Wed Mar 18 21:12:10 2015] <robertkowalski>: voting necessary.
[Wed Mar 18 21:12:11 2015] <robertkowalski>: "
[Wed Mar 18 21:13:26 2015] <Kxepal>: robertkowalski: ok, but we have a group of people
that made a logo. each own with own vision and arguments. what's now?
[Wed Mar 18 21:13:31 2015] <jan____>: good question, I think yeah, just nominate him
[Wed Mar 18 21:13:54 2015] <jan____>: design by committee!
[Wed Mar 18 21:14:11 2015] <robertkowalski>: Kxepal: so far no one got nominated by
anyone
[Wed Mar 18 21:14:28 2015] <robertkowalski>: but i am also not sure what we do if we
have multiple nominations.
[Wed Mar 18 21:14:32 2015] <robertkowalski>: hmm..
[Wed Mar 18 21:14:39 2015] <nslater>: I'm at a gig
[Wed Mar 18 21:14:47 2015] <robertkowalski>: Wohali: what do you think?
[Wed Mar 18 21:14:50 2015] <nslater>: just to say: my email was just a recommendation
[Wed Mar 18 21:14:56 2015] <jan____>: I’m in favour of letting a professional designer
take this on. They can work with the other proposal people to figure out which way to go
[Wed Mar 18 21:15:01 2015] <nslater>: let's do whatever makes sense
[Wed Mar 18 21:15:02 2015] <jan____>: ultimately the PMC decides
[Wed Mar 18 21:15:08 2015] <jan____>: nslater: get out of here
[Wed Mar 18 21:15:10 2015] <nslater>: my words are not golden
[Wed Mar 18 21:15:13 2015] <jan____>: nslater: <3
[Wed Mar 18 21:15:16 2015] <nslater>: :)
[Wed Mar 18 21:15:31 2015] <nslater>: cya!
[Wed Mar 18 21:15:53 2015] <jan____>: what is important: we will hurt people’s feelings,
we need to be prepared to do this
[Wed Mar 18 21:16:01 2015] <jan____>: this isn’t everybody throws their patch/+1 in
[Wed Mar 18 21:16:20 2015] <Wohali>: sorry i was lying down
[Wed Mar 18 21:16:39 2015] <Wohali>: can someone give me a quick question as to "what
do you think" means?
[Wed Mar 18 21:17:21 2015] <robertkowalski>: Wohali: we are unsure about the process
regarding the logo and how to proceed with the many submissions
[Wed Mar 18 21:17:31 2015] <jan____>: I like Noah’s suggestion, the PMC is the customer
and makes the final call, they work with a nominated designer that works out one or more proposals
with the other community folks.
[Wed Mar 18 21:17:40 2015] <jan____>: community gets to vote on preferences, PMC makes
a call.
[Wed Mar 18 21:18:03 2015] <jan____>: I have no qualms about having Sean/Cloudant be
that designer
[Wed Mar 18 21:18:04 2015] <Wohali>: agree, PMC is the ajudicator and probably will
result in a PMC vote. We need to review the bylaws on this one to ensure there's appropriate
precedent there
[Wed Mar 18 21:19:16 2015] <robertkowalski>: Wohali: you mean adding that process to
the bylaws?
[Wed Mar 18 21:19:21 2015] <Kxepal>: jan____: mmm...I'd like to argue you, but not now
[Wed Mar 18 21:19:39 2015] <Wohali>: robertkowalski: all standards re: voting are in
the bylaws. not sure if this is covered.
[Wed Mar 18 21:19:47 2015] <jan____>: Kxepal: let’s do it on marketing@ — I’ll
reply there
[Wed Mar 18 21:19:52 2015] <Kxepal>: jan____: ok
[Wed Mar 18 21:19:54 2015] <Wohali>: as for picking a designer/design group, well, that's
ultimately also a PMC decision but with community input
[Wed Mar 18 21:20:13 2015] <Wohali>: in general in the past I've seen more of a "
[Wed Mar 18 21:20:15 2015] <Wohali>: oops
[Wed Mar 18 21:20:23 2015] <Wohali>: community vote on these things. We picked the top
5, what do you think?
[Wed Mar 18 21:20:27 2015] <jan____>: I’d say as per http://couchdb.apache.org/bylaws.html#types
this is the “Create or amend official document” category
[Wed Mar 18 21:20:42 2015] <Wohali>: true, logo is an official thing
[Wed Mar 18 21:21:10 2015] <Wohali>: tthat says the vote would be on the dev list, lazy
2/3rds, with PMC members only being  binding votes
[Wed Mar 18 21:21:15 2015] <Wohali>: taht is consistent
[Wed Mar 18 21:21:34 2015] <Wohali>: but deciding how we get that logo done is a non-technical
decision which is up to the committers
[Wed Mar 18 21:21:58 2015] <jan____>: maybe we can simplify things and just have anyone
(including Sean) propose their work, we do a community preference vote and then PMC decided
[Wed Mar 18 21:22:11 2015] <jan____>: no need to make a designer BDFL for the logo,
all designers are BDFL for their proposal
[Wed Mar 18 21:22:12 2015] <Wohali>: i think that's fair, as long as a set timeline
happens
[Wed Mar 18 21:22:27 2015] <Wohali>: e.g. all submissions by march 31
[Wed Mar 18 21:22:34 2015] <Wohali>: public vote by april 15
[Wed Mar 18 21:22:36 2015] <jan____>: Wohali: I’d say how the designers make the logo
is up t them :)
[Wed Mar 18 21:22:39 2015] <Wohali>: pmc decision by april 30
[Wed Mar 18 21:22:44 2015] <Kxepal>: jan____: Wohali wise ideas
[Wed Mar 18 21:22:54 2015] <Wohali>: given we've had a lot of submissions this gives
just enough time to pick your best submissions
[Wed Mar 18 21:23:01 2015] <Wohali>: we could even say 1 submission per designer
[Wed Mar 18 21:23:01 2015] <jan____>: as long as we have the option to abort if nothing’s
good, I’d be fine with that
[Wed Mar 18 21:23:11 2015] <Wohali>: pmc vote could include "d onothing," sure
[Wed Mar 18 21:23:22 2015] <jan____>: I like that
[Wed Mar 18 21:23:25 2015] <robertkowalski>: Wohali: great input!
[Wed Mar 18 21:23:29 2015] <jan____>: get an alter ego if you want to have 2
[Wed Mar 18 21:23:38 2015] <Wohali>: hehe, no sock puppets please
[Wed Mar 18 21:23:50 2015] <jan____>: cool, that sounds like we have a plan
[Wed Mar 18 21:23:59 2015] <jan____>: robertkowalski: do you feel like writing this
up?
[Wed Mar 18 21:24:03 2015] <jan____>: :)
[Wed Mar 18 21:24:07 2015] <robertkowalski>: Wohali: thank you so much! :)
[Wed Mar 18 21:24:12 2015] <Wohali>: it's what I do.
[Wed Mar 18 21:24:30 2015] <robertkowalski>: jan____: if you could give me a review
before i send to the ML
[Wed Mar 18 21:24:45 2015] <robertkowalski>: jan____: then for sure!
[Wed Mar 18 21:24:50 2015] <jan____>: robertkowalski: always!
[Wed Mar 18 21:25:23 2015] <jan____>: Wohali: ^5 — thanks for talking this through,
I think we’ve got something here.
[Wed Mar 18 21:25:58 2015] <arun_agarwal>: Wohali: one quick question.
[Wed Mar 18 21:26:04 2015] <robertkowalski>: one question: if some folks (commiters,
pmc) are against changing the logo
[Wed Mar 18 21:26:18 2015] <robertkowalski>: do they vote -1 in the committer vote?
[Wed Mar 18 21:26:26 2015] <Wohali>: no no the committer vote is "vote for your favourite"

[Wed Mar 18 21:26:31 2015] <Wohali>: and we include the original logo as an option
[Wed Mar 18 21:26:45 2015] <robertkowalski>: Wohali: ah thank you!
[Wed Mar 18 21:26:47 2015] <Wohali>: then the PMC vote is to accept/reject the suggestios
of the commitmters 
[Wed Mar 18 21:26:50 2015] <Wohali>: arun_agarwal: go ahead
[Wed Mar 18 21:27:29 2015] <arun_agarwal>: Wohali: which team decides the genuinty of
the logo that people are proposing.. the selected logo design could be "inspired" from some

[Wed Mar 18 21:27:35 2015] <arun_agarwal>: other logo and that could be problem later
on.
[Wed Mar 18 21:27:48 2015] <arun_agarwal>: do we have a team which brings this as intellectual
property?
[Wed Mar 18 21:28:15 2015] <Wohali>: Apache does have legal council who can help review
these things, yes, as we intend to file the new logo under trademark / service mark law
[Wed Mar 18 21:28:18 2015] <jan____>: #action robertkowalski writes a text about the
process
[Wed Mar 18 21:28:31 2015] <jan____>: arun_agarwal: there is a trademarks group at Apache,
we’d run the final logo by them
[Wed Mar 18 21:29:20 2015] <arun_agarwal>: Wohali, jan____:  hmm I see.. that would
be great, because while it unites us, we probably won't have lot of time redoing this :D
[Wed Mar 18 21:29:46 2015] <jan____>: arun_agarwal: good call! :)
[Wed Mar 18 21:30:17 2015] <Wohali>: yes i think that happens after the committer vote
[Wed Mar 18 21:30:21 2015] <jan____>: fwiw, the current logo is dangerously close to
the German soccer league: https://encrypted.google.com/search?tbm=isch&q=bundeliga&tbs=imgo:1
[Wed Mar 18 21:30:25 2015] <Wohali>: because if #1 is a problem, #2 in the ranking might
not be
[Wed Mar 18 21:30:34 2015] <Wohali>: jan, haha
[Wed Mar 18 21:30:41 2015] <Wohali>: i don't fancy fighting FIFA!
[Wed Mar 18 21:30:52 2015] <jan____>: lol yeah, no
[Wed Mar 18 21:32:03 2015] <Kxepal>: jan____: where do you see couch on bundesliga logo?
they aren't close.
[Wed Mar 18 21:32:12 2015] <Wohali>: Kxepal: it's a joke, i think
[Wed Mar 18 21:32:18 2015] <jan____>: huh?
[Wed Mar 18 21:32:32 2015] <Wohali>: i don't think they'd seriously come after us, but
i do see the similarity
[Wed Mar 18 21:32:40 2015] <Kxepal>: sorry, seems like my humor process died
[Wed Mar 18 21:32:42 2015] <Wohali>: but, it might be hard to file for the trademark
[Wed Mar 18 21:32:49 2015] <jan____>: white shape with pronounced legs on red background
[Wed Mar 18 21:32:54 2015] <jan____>: totally close.
[Wed Mar 18 21:32:59 2015] <Kxepal>: jan____: too abstract description
[Wed Mar 18 21:33:14 2015] <jan____>: it is worse when you see it in real-life here,
I have one on my commute and it gets me every time
[Wed Mar 18 21:33:29 2015] <jan____>: they aren’t pixel-perfect copies, but if you
see one casually trust me, you will think CouchDB :)
[Wed Mar 18 21:33:35 2015] <jan____>: all this is off topic for now
[Wed Mar 18 21:33:53 2015] <Kxepal>: yea, and that's a question for lawyers (:
[Wed Mar 18 21:33:58 2015] <jan____>: let’s wrap this :)
[Wed Mar 18 21:34:08 2015] <rkowalski__>: \o/
[Wed Mar 18 21:34:44 2015] <arun_agarwal>: if all done, I have one quick point. 
[Wed Mar 18 21:34:52 2015] <jan____>: shoot
[Wed Mar 18 21:34:59 2015] <arun_agarwal>: can someone fill the red TBD @ https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/COUCHDB/Installing+CouchDB
[Wed Mar 18 21:35:28 2015] <arun_agarwal>: few new tech have introduced starting 2.0.
 should we add that or get rid of this table?
[Wed Mar 18 21:35:56 2015] <jan____>: arun_agarwal: ICU/Curl: same as 1.x / autoconf/make
no longer required
[Wed Mar 18 21:36:16 2015] <Wohali>: i don't think curl is still required in 2.0
[Wed Mar 18 21:36:27 2015] <jan____>: incorrect
[Wed Mar 18 21:36:29 2015] <Kxepal>: Wohali: it need for tests iirc
[Wed Mar 18 21:36:30 2015] <Wohali>: at least, i think i removed the req't for that
in dbcore prior to the merge?
[Wed Mar 18 21:36:31 2015] <jan____>: :)
[Wed Mar 18 21:36:38 2015] <Wohali>: oh. boo. guess that didn't get merged.
[Wed Mar 18 21:36:54 2015] <jan____>: still needed for CLI JS tests
[Wed Mar 18 21:36:59 2015] <jan____>: it is optional
[Wed Mar 18 21:37:00 2015] <robertkowalski>: we have this wiki page, https://github.com/apache/couchdb/blob/master/INSTALL.Unix
and the official docs
[Wed Mar 18 21:37:01 2015] <Wohali>: k
[Wed Mar 18 21:37:04 2015] <jan____>: and off by default
[Wed Mar 18 21:37:08 2015] <robertkowalski>: oh and https://github.com/apache/couchdb/blob/master/README-DEV
[Wed Mar 18 21:37:10 2015] <Wohali>: yeah no auto*, but we need rebar now
[Wed Mar 18 21:37:21 2015] <Wohali>: and there are the extra req'ts for building fauxton
[Wed Mar 18 21:37:29 2015] <arun_agarwal>: rebar and nodejs?
[Wed Mar 18 21:37:32 2015] <jan____>: yeah, as mentioned on the ML, I’m worried about
duplication of content here
[Wed Mar 18 21:37:35 2015] <Wohali>: and npm
[Wed Mar 18 21:37:35 2015] <robertkowalski>: and they are all in different way outdated
and up to date
[Wed Mar 18 21:37:46 2015] <robertkowalski>: can we remove some?
[Wed Mar 18 21:37:51 2015] <jan____>: and grunt etc.
[Wed Mar 18 21:37:59 2015] <jan____>: see the fauxton readme for fauxton deps
[Wed Mar 18 21:38:14 2015] <arun_agarwal>: yes, we have so many links and many-many
are dead
[Wed Mar 18 21:38:18 2015] <robertkowalski>: fauxton does not need a globally installed
grunt soon any more
[Wed Mar 18 21:38:25 2015] <jan____>: http://couchdb.apache.org/developer-preview/2.0/
shows what is needed
[Wed Mar 18 21:38:35 2015] <arun_agarwal>: for one topic we should ideally have one
doc and all other should be soft link to the detailed one
[Wed Mar 18 21:38:37 2015] <jan____>: we should only keep INSTALL.md and DEVELOPER.md
— everything else should link to them
[Wed Mar 18 21:38:38 2015] <arun_agarwal>: :)
[Wed Mar 18 21:38:47 2015] <sebastianrothbuc>: +1 on that
[Wed Mar 18 21:38:58 2015] <arun_agarwal>: jan____: +1
[Wed Mar 18 21:39:00 2015] <jan____>: robertkowalski: nice use of future past tense
there :D
[Wed Mar 18 21:39:35 2015] <Kxepal>: jan____: and one for docs, or transform *.md into
.rst to make them inclusive for docs
[Wed Mar 18 21:39:57 2015] <Wohali>: agree
[Wed Mar 18 21:40:17 2015] <jan____>: Kxepal: then we have tow places again
[Wed Mar 18 21:40:31 2015] <arun_agarwal>: Kxepal: but that won't generate twiki?
[Wed Mar 18 21:40:37 2015] <Kxepal>: jan____: after transform we don't
[Wed Mar 18 21:40:46 2015] <arun_agarwal>: oh sorry.. got it
[Wed Mar 18 21:40:53 2015] <jan____>: then we should put it all in the .rst docs and
have INSTALL.rst and DEVELOPER.rst generated from there at build time
[Wed Mar 18 21:40:54 2015] <arun_agarwal>: twiki will just link to these markdowns
[Wed Mar 18 21:41:07 2015] <jan____>: arun_agarwal: let’s not also add this to the
wiki, we are trying to consolidate, not spread :
[Wed Mar 18 21:41:26 2015] <jan____>: :)
[Wed Mar 18 21:41:31 2015] <jan____>: right :)
[Wed Mar 18 21:41:31 2015] <arun_agarwal>: jan____: yup.. understood and agree .. my
bad...:)
[Wed Mar 18 21:41:49 2015] <jan____>: no worries
[Wed Mar 18 21:41:52 2015] <Kxepal>: jan____: mmm..you suggest to build the couchdb,
make the docs first? (:
[Wed Mar 18 21:42:30 2015] <jan____>: the requirements are: we need two top level source
tree files that we can have in tarballs (ideally also git) and two places in the docs where
the user and dev setup are explained.
[Wed Mar 18 21:42:48 2015] <sebastianrothbuc>: can one not link to these docs on github
and that's it?
[Wed Mar 18 21:43:00 2015] <jan____>: maybe we can make it that the top level INSTALL.rst
and DEVELOPER.rst are included in the docs build
[Wed Mar 18 21:43:04 2015] <Kxepal>: sebastianrothbuc: no internet case
[Wed Mar 18 21:43:06 2015] <jan____>: that would be easiest
[Wed Mar 18 21:43:16 2015] <robertkowalski>: sebastianrothbuc: yes i would prefer that
[Wed Mar 18 21:43:16 2015] <Kxepal>: jan____: yeap, clear
[Wed Mar 18 21:43:28 2015] <jan____>: offlineofflineoffline :)
[Wed Mar 18 21:43:50 2015] <jan____>: robertkowalski: no go, can’t be online
[Wed Mar 18 21:43:57 2015] <jan____>: Kxepal: cool, let’s work on that
[Wed Mar 18 21:44:09 2015] <jan____>: #action Kxepal and jan____ to figure out consolidation
of install instructions
[Wed Mar 18 21:44:30 2015] <Kxepal>: deal (:
[Wed Mar 18 21:45:47 2015] <jan____>: ASFBot: meeting end


Meeting ended at Wed Mar 18 21:45:47 2015

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